Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 18:38:38 -0000
Subject: Issue in using REALM for cloud-based church administration
Our congregation has started a conversion to a system proved by REALM to
support clould-based church administrative things.
A recent email to congregants asked people to "sign up", and gave a link,
etc.
At the end of REALM's registration form was a "register" button, with the
phrase
"By clicking the register button below, you agree to the Software Services
Agreement "
That agreement (you can find here: https://onrealm.org/About ) includes:
Users may not post or transmit any message, data, image or program that
is, in the sole discretion of ACST, is offensive to Christians ...
or advocates or proselytizes non-Christian religious or doctrinal beliefs
This restriction seems one that most UU's (if they were aware) would not
agree to.
In our case, I believe that no one was actually aware that this legal
restriction was part of the Software Services Agreement, before deciding
to adopt the REALM system.
If anyone is using this system, have they found a way around this legal
agreement restriction?
-Marshall
-----
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 18:54:30 -0000
Subject: Issue in using REALM for cloud-based church administration
Wow. Definitely a gotcha.
On a similar note, when we were evaluating CMS systems in 2015, after we
had signed up for a free trial with them, the president and founder of
"ChurchTeams" sent us an email saying that unless we could support their
mission statement that ChurchTeams users would "play a part in Christ's
commission to make disciples of all nations," we should not use their
services. Up until then, they were a finalist.
Bill Downall
volunteer webmaster
exeteruu.org
-----
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 18:59:08 -0000
Subject: Issue in using REALM for cloud-based church administration
I had no idea that Realm was so ?Christian? based when we signed up for it! We migrated from Church Helpmate, and Realm was the logical database package for us to move to when Church Helpmate was discontinued (merged with ACS Realm) since the data migration was provided free of charge. I noticed that some of the video tutorials seemed overly Christian oriented, but I thought that was an oversight on the part of those preparing the tutorials.
How many UU Societies are using Realm? I think we should work together to try to get ACS to be more inclusive in all their agreements and also in their tutorials. I would think that they?d be happy to have non-Christian groups use their software as they?ll sell to more customers if they are.
Kathy
------------------------------
Kathy Paranya
kparanya at stny.rr.com
-----
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 19:02:59 -0000
Subject: Issue in using REALM for cloud-based church administration
We've been with Realm for a year now (and I know a number of UU churches
who have moved to Realm or plan to) and it's the first I've heard of
this. I imagine few look at the agreement.
We are happy with Realm, are invested in using it, and have had no
indications that the company is not UU friendly.
I suppose some issue/could/ come up in the future, but I will deal with
it at that time. It would be good to address this with the company though.
I looked at other software solutions, and there are some that ask that
we affirm the Apostles' Creed.....
des
Darlene Sarkela, Congregational Administrator
Olympia Unitarian Universalist Congregation
2315 Division St NW Olympia WA 98502
360-786-6383 ext 100
"There is no reason why good cannot triumph as often as evil. The triumph of anything is a matter of organization. If there are such things as angels, I hope that they are organized along the lines of the Mafia."
~ Kurt Vonnegut
-----
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 19:05:37 -0000
Subject: Issue in using REALM for cloud-based church administration
We've been using ACS and now Realm for many years. They may have that in
their agreement (and I was just wondering aloud to my husband last week who
actually reads those things) but they have always been amenable to meeting
our needs. Many UU congregations use ACS products. Sometimes businesses
are more interested in having customers than enforcing their own rules.
Hmmmm.....
Linda Topp
UU Asheville ~500 members
*Linda M. Topp, Ph.D., CCA*
*Director of Administration*
*Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Asheville*
*(828) 254-6001 x201*
This faith requires something of us in return for being our
ideological home, and that requires that we get up, get out, and build the
world we dream about.. ~*Takiyah Amin, in *UU World*, Winter 2017.*
-----
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 21:37:47 -0000
Subject: Issue in using REALM for cloud-based church administration
Hi-
We have used PowerChurch for many years and have not had interaction from the company to our members.
Julie Howell
Mattatuck UU Society
Woodbury, CT
-----
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 21:56:08 -0000
Subject: realm acs - a way around this legal agreement restriction
?Unbelievable!?
A couple of points here.
First, if REALM/ACS/etc. are contacting your members, it is likely you (and
each member who indicated they had read the agreement) agreed to them
having that access to YOUR DATA in another part of that Software Agreement.
?Second, there is No Free Lunch. One needs to pay for software - one way or
another. Either pay cash and own a license, or agree to share personal data
instead. This is always a part of the user agreements - some more onerous
than others. Some Software you pay for also has you agreeing to let them
use/share your personal data?.
Third, 'the way around this' is to ignore it and prepare to lose all your
data should they exercise their rights under the agreement to terminate
your access.
Fourth, by using such restrictive products, you you are effectively
sponsoring/supporting them.
The ethical thing to do would be to move on to a secular program all you
youse can support.
Just sayin'
Charles
-----
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 04:25:32 -0000
Subject: realm acs - a way around this legal agreement restriction
I didn?t read it as a question of them contacting members, but some members (like me!) who actually take the time to read (well, in my case, at least skim) the terms of service when creating a password/account.
I agree about the ethics question and have been forwarding this discussion to the decision makers at CUC as we begin to make a transition to a new system, which I believe is to be REALM.
Sally Gellert
CUC, Paramus, N.J.
-----
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 04:54:43 -0000
Subject: realm acs - a way around this legal agreement restriction
Well, they do also say "ACST?s goal is to provide broad access and
enjoyment of its Sites while maintaining a safe, non-offensive
atmosphere for everyone." And the agreement also talks about copyrighted
material, pyramid schemes, pornography, libelous messages, etc.
I think the chances are very low that this agreement would be a problem.
We do not use Realm as a tool to post information that is offensive to
Christians (or anyone else).
Realm's primarily serves Christian churches, so it would be natural that
their agreements and promotional materials would be supportive of
Christian beliefs. However, in dealing with Realm sales and support I
have found no religious talk at all - just business. And I have found
the software flexible enough for the record-keeping needs of a UU church.
I appreciate that this information was shared. I would hope that all
would consider it and make choices that are best the needs of your
particular church.
In peace,
Darlene, Olympia WA
des
Darlene Sarkela, Congregational Administrator
Olympia Unitarian Universalist Congregation
2315 Division St NW Olympia WA 98502
360-786-6383 ext 100
"There is no reason why good cannot triumph as often as evil. The triumph of anything is a matter of organization. If there are such things as angels, I hope that they are organized along the lines of the Mafia."
~ Kurt Vonnegut
-----
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 16:25:16 -0000
Since this organization (ACS) seems (in other writings) intends for their
system to be more widely used (not just restricted to Christians), that
they could be quite amenable to changing the wording of this restriction.
Since this organization appears to operate "as a business", I suggest the
following approach:
1) Nominate a person from among current "large" users of this software,
preferably one that already has good relations with this organization from
prior interactions, and start a dialog along the lines:
a) We are aware that several (many) UU congregations are using your
sofware/services, and
b) They didn't realize when they registered, they were agreeing to a
restriction that goes against the UU principles (here you can state the
restriction)
c) This issue has now been "discovered" and raised among many of the UU
congregations that have signed up and is being discussed by many
congregations
2) Ask if (in the same spirit as expressed in other parts of their legal
agreements) they could remove this restriction, to enable UU congregations
to make use of their service.
I already "chatted" with someone on the REALM website about this, and they
say:
"Someone on your church staff would need to call into our support line for
further assistance."
-Marshall
-----
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:50:29 -0000
Subject: realm acs - a way around this legal restriction
I would not be surprised to find out that that other church software
companies have similar restrictions. As I mentioned in a previous
response, in our search for software we talked to companies who were
very clear that we would need to sign a statement of faith to use their
services.
The part of the agreement that has been brought to our attention is
/"Users may not post or transmit any message, data, image or program that
is, in the sole discretion of ACST, is offensive to Christians ... ////or advocates or proselytizes non-Christian religious or doctrinal beliefs"/
As we use software as a data management tool, are we at a high risk of posting data offensive to Christians? We come out of the Judeo-Christian tradition and have members who are UU Christians. As we use software as a data management too, are we at a high risk of proselytizing our beliefs? I don't see this tool as a vehicle for proselytizing anything. I would think that there would be a higher risk of infringing on some copyright restriction (that's in their agreement too).
I don't see how a company stating their values goes against UU principles. We can choose to contract with them or not.
At one time there was a UU who had developed management software. I don't recall the name of it now or know if it is still being offered. I am in a number of church communication/management groups (multi-faith) and know that some very popular software solutions right now ares Breeze and Planning Center Online. Perhaps those companies are less restrictive/have wording that is more agreeable.
In Peace,
Darlene
des
Darlene Sarkela, Congregational Administrator
-----
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 20:40:34 -0000
Subject: realm acs - a way around this legal restriction
We don't use Realm and don't plan to, but yes, I would postulate that we do
use our database to "proselytize non-Christian beliefs." For example, we
might use it to send a mass email inviting people to our pagan winter
solstice ritual. I can't imagine Realm would punish anyone for this, but I
think they would be within their legal rights to say its violates their
terms of service if they decided to.
Lea Smith
Congregational Administrator
Unitarian Universalist Church of Concord
"Connecting in Love and Service - Growing Spiritually - Transforming
Ourselves and Our World"
-----
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 21:28:36 -0000
Subject: realm acs - a way around this legal restriction
Yes, that's true - they could terminate for any of the many reasons
listed in the agreement.
Just as we might deny access to those disparaging UUism or promoting
hate groups on our websites or social media. We all attempt to have some
control - or at least a way out.
If ACS has terminated any agreement because of emails like the one you
mentioned, I would be interested in hearing about it. I just think the
risk is low. Those who are concerned may want to have a conversation
with ACS representatives or look at other options.
Darlene
des
Darlene Sarkela, Congregational Administrator
-----
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 23:21:36 -0000
While the instant issue is the non-secular terms of the agreement, the
broader issue would seem to be their use of user data to contact users
directly - if, as was implied in the original posting, such was the case.
When one buys an application, the purchasing entity may be registered with
the vendor - and may agree to License Terms, but the users of the software
don't have any further interaction with the vendor as a consequence of
using the product. The vendor has no idea that Judy Smitth, Bob's secretary
is doing the data entry, for instance.
If these online programs require personal contact (or other personal
information) from each user accessing the program, there is a potential for
abuse, unauthorized or unexpected use of that information.
There are programs one can purchase outright to be loaded upon and run on
one's 'own' server*. In this way the vendor has no access to the product,
the data used by the product or the identity of any of the users authorized
access to the product.
Charles
* "Own Server" as in the one that hosts your web site where you own the
Domain Name and simply lease space on a server somewhere 'out there' in The
Cloud.
The National UU might want to get an IT Group together to discover what is
available out there in the way of hosting as well as product/software
options rather that to leave it to an ad hoc approach by the UU end user
community her.
-----
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 02:43:21 -0000
I've been watching this conversation with some interest. I don't have
any role in choosing software for our small fellowship, but I am
wondering why UU organizations would be limiting themselves to "church"
software at all, since many UU congregations actively reject the idea of
being a church. I did a quick search for software to manage
nonprofit associations, and found several, of which this seems to be pretty
popular - https://www.tendenci.com/ It is GPL open source, meaning it
is completely free of license charges.
I would especially find using a specifically "Christian" software to be
off-putting. I personally reject all god beliefs, though I quietly
tolerate them in others. If part of using management software to serve
members needs means that they have to log in and be faced with lots of
god-centered and 'church' centered terminology, then that is not very
inclusive of those of us who reject it all.
I know this is a decision of individual congregations, but I think the UU
should not consider non-theistic and non-spiritual UUers to be the
exception. I don't want a work-around to god specific language, I want
to reject it altogether. I think there are a lot of us, and maybe that
should be acknowledged in choosing software.
Bob
-----
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 05:49:00 -0000
Subject: realm acs - a way around this legal restriction
If the humanists among us are open about their beliefs, do they risk running afoul of this part of the terms? What if we host a program on reproductive justice? or polyamory, or Buddhism? or cohost a program on the boycott/divest/sancrion movement with MPower or Jewish Voice for Peace?
I like the idea of a UU team of some sort bringing this to REALM management, as Marshall suggests.<div>Sally Gellert
CUC, Paramus, N.J.
(typing for myself alone)
-----
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 06:05:33 -0000
My team has said that although they notice references to Christian sacraments and are aware of REALM being a Christian company, they have been very professional.
Personally, I agree with you, had recommended a different (and less expensive) option mentioned on this list, but I think things are far enough along that the deciders at my society will stay with it. I fear that we godless ones are a less-influential group than when I joined in the late 1990s.
Sally Gellert
( for myself only)
-----
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 23:12:04 -0000
Subject: realm acs - a way around this legal restriction
Sally,
Please take this the right way but you are overthinking this.? I would rather not raise the issue with REALM, because all it can do is have negative consequences.? I personally put the chances of REALM making this an issue or anyone other than your devoted self actually reading the agreement at close to zero.
Let?s let time pass on this.
Rab
-----
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 23:27:04 -0000
As a Realm user (and the primary staff user at my church), I can report
that after over a year of using the product I have not run into any
problems related to the issue being discussed.
I don't have stock in ACS and I know that there are many other software
solutions, so whether any particular UU church uses it makes no
difference to me. All I can do is report my experiences. I have had no
interaction with ACS employees where religious terminology was used. All
emails from Realm to Administrators or church member users are without
religious language. The software is flexible enough. I can filter out
the sacraments or other features that do not apply to us.
Could there possibly be a problem in the future related to the
agreement? I suppose anything is possible.
As with any process to find the best software solution we all weigh the
pros and cons - functionality, cost, reputation of the company,
user-friendliness, etc. Hopefully those in your congregation who will be
the primary users of the software will choose something that works great
for you!
Darlene
Darlene Sarkela, Congregational Administrator
Olympia Unitarian Universalist Congregation
-----
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 00:48:44 -0000
Subject: realm acs - a way around this legal restriction
Understood, I certainly do not expect CUC to take any sort of lead on this, we are one small UU society; that is specifically why I included that I was simply ?typing for myself alone?. As an individual, I hope that the denomination is interested in talking with REALM.
Sally
-----
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 01:45:01 -0000
Subject: realm acs - a way around this legal restriction
The idea that raising the issue at all can only have negative consequences
is probably true, but the fact that is so is the strongest argument against
releasing your private data to a company with a strongly stated religious
mission.
"Realm" appears to be a hosted service. That means that the company has
your data. It means that many tech employees at that company also have
your data. Querying a relational database is the simplest thing in the
world for person who knows how. It would be simple for a zealous Xtian
employee to get a list of all the UU members who signed up to guard an
abortion clinic, or who agreed to provide sanctuary to refugees, or who
simply attended a Gay Pride rally.
We live in a country today where "christian" bakers refuse to provide cakes
to gays. Where anti abortion terrorists bomb clinics. Where Hobby
stores refuse health care to women. Where women may again be threatened
with prison for having an abortion, even a medically necessary one.
Where the Christian Identity movement is growing. Ten years ago a
gunman walked into UU felllowship in Kentucky and killed two people.
Things are getting worse in this area, and our current national leadership
is throwing fuel on the fire. A few years ago, this fear could be called
unlikely. That was before "some very fine people" marched through the
streets shouting "Jews will not replace us" in Charleston. Before a Nazi
sympathizer drove his car into a crowd of peaceful protesters.
I've been a UU all my life, and also in the computer business for 30
years. If my fellowship signed up for this service, I would quit.
Bob
-----
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 04:13:27 -0000
"the chances of REALM making this an issue ... close to zero."
`Ah, the Hobby Lobby of the digital divide.
"Realm" appears to be a hosted service. That means that the company has
your (personal) data."
The issue, thus, is raised.
No point speaking to REALM, would they not simply deny or obfuscate?
REALM has, in point of fact, first raised the issue by demanding a user
ascent to the policy as a condition of the license.
Now that some U actually read the agreement, the decision is with UU alone.
Now, if the Pope were to call REALM to object . . . then again, it might
require a seance with Billy Graham.
REALM has decided not to serve secular customers as a matter of policy via
an end-user license carefully drawn by their legal counsel. A a private
company, they are entitled to hypocrisy - protected in such by our
constitution (or the current interpretation thereof).
The question, thus, remains. Is it a violation of our covenants to truck
with individuals or companies that discriminate upon the basis of religion?
As said, a question only UU can decide.
Charles
-----
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 18:22:55 -0000
Members,
I received the following thoughts from one of our subscribers:
"I've been a long-time subscriber to multiple of the UUA's Mailman email
lists. ChurchMgmtSoftware's digest format and handling has become markedly
different then others, and not in a good way.
Comparing it to uumn-l, for example, I see that "Today's topics" in
UUMN's shows the subject line, followed by the name of the sender (out
of the sender's text portion of its From field) in parentheses.
Individual messages are separated by text-based "rules" of hyphens,
headed with "Message: 1" (2, etc.) corresponding to the topic list,
and the sender's Date, From, Subject headers, among others.
In the CMS digest, all messages are formatted as "Forwarded", with the
and the churchmgmtsoftware at lists.uua.org address.
That is, the CMSD formatting is discarding the actual sender
information, and calling all messages its own. The only way to discern
who sent something is if the sender includes some sort of signature in
the body of the message. (Excerpted samples from the two lists below.)
In addition to failing to pass along essential information, the repetition of
the (list as) sender in the context of a digest is superfluous, and visual
noise.
May I suggest the CMS digest be made to conform to what others are
doing, as a better medium of communication between members?"
I took over as List Administrator many years ago--and have never many any changes to the list settings.In mulling over the above suggestions, my thoughts are:
Perhaps the original (and existing) setting to exclude a sender's email address was to not make it public unless they specifically included it within the text of their message.? In my experience, the members of this list have always been very civil in their discussions.? They might have disagreed on something, but it remained a civilized discussion.?
Thus, I am open to making the changes suggested by this member.
Would anyone object to the list being changed such that members email addresses would be included with their posted messages?If so, please reply to the list or email directly to me at <LKL47 at bellsouth.net>.If there are no objections that cannot be resolved, I will go ahead and implement the changes.
Regards,Larry Long
-----
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 20:13:08 -0000
Good morning, All,
This is in response to Bob's email about why UU congregations might "be limiting themselves to "church" software" - I'd be interested to hear what others have to say on this as well. My experience has been that "church" software is much easier to use (it seems designed for volunteer rather than professional use) and the out-of-the-box configurations fit most UU applications better than "nonprofit" software because the leadership demographics and business functions are much more like those of an average church than of an average non-profit.
When we were looking for new data management software, we didn't limit ourselves to "church" software; we also looked at secular nonprofit software and at a few packages that were designed for use by synagogues. As the office administrator, a tech/software/data enthusiast, and as a secular person, my first pick would have been Salesforce for our data management. It's enterprise-level professional software, hugely capable and customizable, and it's free for nonprofits to use.
However.... it doesn't have things like an out-of-the-box member directory or online member portal, and at the time I couldn't find a cost-efficient way to add these features. These features were lacking in almost all of the nonprofit data management packages we looked at. I would guess this is because your typical nonprofit doesn't have 150+ active members who want to do things like look up each other's contact information; or view which affinity groups and committees are available and who is in each one; or check their pledge balance or make contributions online; or reserve a room in the building using an online calendar that's linked to the main database. On the other hand, most "church" software packages had variations on all of these features because these are things that most churches need or benefit from.
Also, all of the nonprofit data management software packages we looked at seemed like they were designed to be used by staff members with a certain level of comfort (or even enthusiasm for) using data management software. We have many highly capable volunteer leaders here, but most of them struggle with and/or have no interest in computer applications. As much as I would love to have Salesforce at my disposal in my office role, I don't think it would have been possible to teach most of our volunteers to use the program because of its complexity. And, if the next person who takes my position is not as computer-interested as I am, then they might struggle to maintain and develop a complex system like Salesforce. For whatever reason, most of the "church" software packages we looked at were designed with an eye towards ease of use by volunteers, members, casual users, and others who wouldn't be likely to learn a system that was designed for professional/staff use.
Does anyone out there use a "secular" data management software successfully? I believe the UU Musician's Network uses https://www.yourmembership.com/, and I'd be interested to know how that's working for them and if any others are using it.
Thanks all,
Conrad
Conrad Sisk, Office Administrator
Unitarian Universalist Community of the Mountains (148 members, ~$210k budget)
246 South Church Street, Grass Valley, CA 95945
530-274-1675
www.uugrassvalley.org
Sunday Service Times: 9:30 a.m. & 11:30 a.m.
Office Hours: Monday - Thursday 8:30 a.m. - 1:00 p.m.
-----
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 21:20:58 -0000
No surprise that I agree with my fellow Church Administrator, Conrad.
The reason we choose church software is because church software best
serves our needs.
Church members and friends at my church can do the following: view and
update their contact information, make payments online (and set up
recurring payment plans), view their giving records, see/communicate
with their groups and committees, share documents and files, sign up for
classes, call and email other members via an app, learn about new groups
and activities, and more.
Before we had our current software package, church members still had the
desire to do the things I just listed. We attempted to do that by using
multiple products - a database, googlegroups, sign-up genius, an online
church directory service, an online payment service, a
password-protection service.... We spent hours of staff and volunteer
time trying to cobble together something that would work. But it never
quite worked. I don't know if people realize what it takes to maintain
multiple lists and to learn multiple programs unless they are employed
by the church or volunteer to do these things on a regular basis.
And church members want ease of use! They don't want to login to
multiple sites or to remember multiple passwords. They want to have an
app on their phone so they can easily contact other members. They most
of the information they need from the church to be in one place.
Our online software solution has moved some of the management of groups
from staff to church leaders - and I believe that is a good thing. I, as
Administrator, am no longer involved in managing the communication of
all the groups - they do it themselves. I like it, but more importantly,
church leaders like it.
TechSoup sometimes offers volunteer management software for non-profits.
Perhaps there is a tool there that would work for some of you.
In peace,
Darlene Sarkela
Olympia UU, WA
On 1/15/2018 12:13 PM, Church Management Software, Security and
Utilities via ChurchMgmtSoftware wrote:
--
des
Darlene Sarkela, Congregational Administrator
Olympia Unitarian Universalist Congregation
2315 Division St NW Olympia WA 98502
360-786-6383 ext 100
"There is no reason why good cannot triumph as often as evil. The triumph of anything is a matter of organization. If there are such things as angels, I hope that they are organized along the lines of the Mafia."
~ Kurt Vonnegut
-----
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 21:34:28 -0000
I think Conrad makes good points. Here's my experience with Salesforce.
I'm a Tax Preparer/Trainer for AARP's Tax-Aide program. More information,
if you're interested, at https://www.aarp.org/money/taxes/aarp_taxaide/
The Tax-Aide program uses two major software systems. One is, as you might
imagine tax preparation software. The other, which is a customized
Salesforce implementation, is used as a volunteer management program.
I'm an experienced database user. I have many years' experience using
PowerChurch in three congregations.
PowerChurch is not the most powerful church management software (CMS) and it
isn't the most accessible system, but I would choose it any day over the
heavily customized version of Salesforce that AARP invested heavily in.
One of the lessons I've learned over the years is that if you have to rely
on software which has been modified from some other application, you'll
never get full support for the modified system - it isn't important enough
to the supplier.
I think you'll be better off using software designed to do the task you want
to accomplish even though it misses a few of your goals. You can then lobby
for improvements that will strengthen the base product and be beneficial to
both the supplier and the customers.
Terry Throop
UU Fellowship of San Luis Obispo County, CA
-----
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 21:44:57 -0000
"150+ active members who want to do things like look up each other's
contact information"
?It appears that "Church Management Software"? is a rem of art subject to
different interpretations.
As well, to a host of expectations. Many, in no small part, driven by
advertised 'features' among competitors for 'our business.'
I wonder how many organizations take the time and make the effort to
delineate the 'necessary' features without which they would not make a
purchase.
If the management of the congregation is limited to financials, for
instance, where members need not be granted access, the software solutions
a 'cloud solution' might prove to be Overkill. On the other hand, if the
Congregation owns a Domain Name and hosts a web site, the same server can
serve is the Congregation's 'Cloud.'
While I am not at all comfortable with a solution that would allow any
member to 'look up' the contact information for one (me) or all the other
members of the congregation, that could be accomplished by an application
on the congregation's domain server as well. I would think such an
application might best come under a heading similar to Member's Management
(as opposed to Member Management).
One needs to define first the object of the tool sought - as opposed to
gathering details on all the tools 'out there' and choosing based upon
number of tasks each may be designed to undertake.
The various products on the market were likely developed by folks with a
unique perspective e.g. REALM appears to have a distinctly righteous
Christian sponsorship. One might surmise that many of these applications
originated with 'tech savvy' volunteer members of a congregation attempting
to meet the needs of their particular group with the marketed product
somewhat generalized thereafter.
As to the question of Non-profit vs.Church Management software, it would
seem the latter category to offer features useful and appealing to a UU
Congregation. Yet, if those features are not essential to the object, might
the attempts to implement them simply increase the angle of the learning
curve and reducing the efficiency relative to the essential tasks.
I suspect members, for instance, would be capable of asking one another for
such contact information as necessary before or after a service - some
things may be better done 'off line.'
-----
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 22:00:23 -0000
With our software members determine whether or not they want to share
their contact information. They can share it with all other members,
only within their groups, or limit it to church staff.
No one is required to ever login to an account. Some will never register
an account. Others will fully utilized all of the features.
In peace,
Darlene Sarkela
-----
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 17:13:14 -0000
A year ago we implemented SimpleChurchCRM for our member database after a
focused evaluation of both non-profit and church-based software programs.
We chose a church-based system for the following reasons. Being able to
identify families was a big factor.
- Groups
- Ability to group individuals by family and identify relationships.
e.g. spouse, partner, child, etc.
- Ability to create groups. We have groups for all our committees, RE
classes, Small Group Ministries, and more.
- Ability to log attendance for any group including Sunday Services.
- Ability to mass email any of those groups including contacting
parents of children in the RE classes.
- Gifts and Pledges
- Integration with online giving that directly logs gifts to the
database.
- Pledge and gift tracking. Can designate if giving is per family or
individual.
- Easy statement printing.
- Ability for each member to see their pledge and giving history and
make changes to their own demographic information.
- Directory
- Online member directory through a browser or phone app.
- Printable directory with a click. Option to print by family.
- Integrations
- Integration with MailChimp.
- Integration with Quick Books.
- Integration with Protect My Ministery for background checks.
- Role-based security makes it easy to make sure gift and pledge
data is secure.
SimpleChurchCRM is very intuitive and easy to use. We were able to try it
out for 60 days to make sure it would suit our needs. The support is also
excellent. They have even incorporated new features based on some of our
suggestions. No customization was required. It's a hosted system and very
reasonably priced. It has made a world of difference in our ease of
communication with members. We love, love this system. Highly recommended!
https://www.simplechurchcrm.com
-----
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 00:05:36 -0000
Hi, Conrad et al -
If you're a medium or large church and you're interested in getting to
the next level (a la SalesForce) for online church management, check out
FellowshipOne.com.
We've been using it for a few years now.? It required significant staff
training but in the process it required us to ask good questions about
how and why we do what we do.? Now various staff (each with access
appropriate to their role) can now access membership info, visitor & RE
attendance, giving records, background checks, and pastoral care notes
all online, and with endless report options.? Members can access an
online directory & can give online (it has robust security).
With all these features plus online tutorials & tech help by phone, it's
no surprise that it's not free(!) but it does have a tiered pricing system.
It will push you into the online world (for better and worse, but it
seems that's where our world is going) with better ways to connect with
people, particularly the younger generation (=our future church leaders).
Alisa
Alisa Gould Sugden
Office Administrator
Unitarian Universalist Church of Berkeley
1 Lawson Road
Kensington, CA 94707
(510) 525-0302, ext. 306
On 1/15/2018 12:13 PM, Church Management Software, Security and
Utilities via ChurchMgmtSoftware wrote:
-----
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:07:06 -0000
Subject: ACST Realm and potential new wording for Posting
I wrote my contact at ACST Realm about the Unitarian Universalist concerns with the Software Services Agreement - in particular the ?Rules for Posting? section of that agreement which all users of the software agree to when they get an account to use Realm and click on the ?Agree? button. I have just received a very quick and, in my mind, appropriate response to my letter from a person in their management stating the following:
----------
"ACS Technologies is in business to serve churches without any intent to discriminate against or alienate any denomination we serve. We do however want to have some control over the use of our products to ensure that they are not used in a way that would damage ACS Technologies.
We have reviewed the documents and are looking into updating them based on your feedback. Below is the new wording that we will use based on final approval from our legal counsel.
'Users may not post or transmit any message which is libelous or defamatory, or which discloses private or personal matters concerning any person. Users may not post or transmit any message, data, image or program that is, in the sole discretion of ACST, is offensive, disruptive, indecent, obscene, pornographic, harassing, threatening, abusive, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive; that encourages conduct that would be considered a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability or violate any law; or that is otherwise inappropriate.'
Thank you again for your feedback."
----------
This wording would replace item number 3 in the ?Rules for Posting?, which currently has wording about not allowing postings that might be ?offensive to Christians? or advocate ?non-Christian? beliefs.
I am VERY happy with this reply to my letter, and I feel that ACST has been very responsive to us. It makes me feel that we have a very good company to work with and that we chose the right software for our church when we chose ACST Realm.
Kathy Paranya
kparanya at stny.rr.com
Chair of the Database Task Force
Unitarian Universalist Society of Oneonta, NY
-----
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:23:21 -0000
Subject: ACST Realm and potential new wording for Posting
Good for you! Thank you for reaching out to them. I am pleased with
their response.
Darlene Sarkela (current Realm user)
Olympia UU, WA
On 1/25/2018 9:06 AM, Church Management Software, Security and Utilities
via ChurchMgmtSoftware wrote:
--
des
Darlene Sarkela, Congregational Administrator
Olympia Unitarian Universalist Congregation
2315 Division St NW Olympia WA 98502
360-786-6383 ext 100
"There is no reason why good cannot triumph as often as evil. The triumph of anything is a matter of organization. If there are such things as angels, I hope that they are organized along the lines of the Mafia."
~ Kurt Vonnegut
-----
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:23:35 -0000
Subject: ACST Realm and potential new wording for Posting
I am very impressed with this response. Definitely gets the company into the 21st century.
Nancy Kain, Board Secretary
Namaqua Unitarian Universalist Congregation #2628 (LGBTQ+ Welcoming Congregation, wheelchair accessible, honor congregation)
113 members
745 E. 5th St
Loveland CO
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NamaquaUUCongregation/
Web site: http://www.namaquauu.org/
-----
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:54:57 -0000
Subject: ACST Realm and potential new wording for Posting
Bravo, and THANK YOU!
Sally Gellert
CUC, Paramus, N.J.
-----
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:58:37 -0000
Subject: ACST Realm and potential new wording for Posting
Very well done, and very impressive on the part of ACS.
Bob Treumann
On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 11:06 AM, Church Management Software, Security and
Utilities via ChurchMgmtSoftware <churchmgmtsoftware at lists.uua.org> wrote:
-----
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 18:12:59 -0000
Subject: ACST Realm and potential new wording forPosting
It's been several weeks since the message that they are considering
updating the Software Services Agreement.
I checked several days ago, and saw it was not updated (yet).
Has anyone received any further info on when they will make this change?
-Marshall Schor
-----
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 19:11:44 -0000
Subject: ACST Realm and potential new wording forPosting
The person who wrote to me (actually the President "emeritus" of ACST - whatever that means) saying that they would change the wording told me it was ?subject to legal review and approval?. He also told me to get back in touch if there was anything that he could help me with in the future. I also looked yesterday and saw that the wording had not been changed. If it isn?t done by the end of February, I?ll get back in touch and see what the holdup is.
Kathy
------------------------------
Kathy Paranya
kparanya at stny.rr.com
-----
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 19:23:11 -0000
Subject: ACST Realm and potential new wording forPosting
That makes sense; these things usually take a while. Emeritus usually means retired and being honored, often no power to get things done, but legal review does sound promising.
Thanks for staying on top of this, Kathy!
Sally Gellert
CUC, Paramus, N.J.
-----
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 15:14:17 -0000
?That likely means
1. Committee?
?
?/Board decision
2. Legal expense
President Emeritus ?may be powerless PR person or sage respected founder.
I suspect that this issue is not a top priority for ACST and they may have
more pressing fish to fry (or techs they need to teach to fish) and may not
have a firm on retainer.
My money'd be on six months minimum!
-----
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 17:37:00 -0000
I would be surprised if a firm of this size does not have either a legal firm or a legal department?particularly operating Web sites, there are always rights issues. Of course, turning around massive ships takes time; 6 months is likely a good estimate, but bugging?sorry, sending a quick inquiry?every 6 weeks or so is not unreasonable.
may nothave a firm on retainer
Sally Gellert
CUC, Paramus, N.J.
-----
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 19:21:21 -0000
" I would be surprised if a firm of this size does not have either a legal
firm or a legal department"
What 'size' is this firm?
Publicly traded?
Private?
Number of employees?
Branch offices?
Established?
(Web sites can be deceiving - ask any accomplished hacker.)
-----
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 22:57:59 -0000
Agreed, but we had info on the number of groups using their site which indicates a certain volume, as well as the video with lots of employees in cubicles. Yes, an assumption, but I think not too big a leap.
Sally Gellert
CUC, Paramus, N.J.
-----
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 23:28:30 -0000
Here's information on ACS Technologies, the company that created ACS Realm.
https://www.acstechnologies.com/company
If any church is not comfortable with ACS Technologies, there are plenty
of other options.
Users of this list-serve: please identify yourselves. That would be
appreciated.
In peace,
Darlene Sarkela, Congregational Administrator
Olympia UU Congregation, WA
-----
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2018 19:03:45 -0000
I am the Chair of a committee in the UU Fellowship of the Conejo Valley
(Newbury Park, CA) with responsibility for a pilot effort leading to our
adoption of a Church Management System. We are a mid-sized congregation
with interest in migrating our membership systems and pledge systems as our
first effort with eventual import and exports to our financial systems.
We have chosen Breeze for our initial pilot and are interested in
exchanging information with other UU congregations who have implemented
Breeze. We are interested in other CMS systems as well as we progress in
our pilot efforts.
We would appreciate any information on your experiences.
Bill Robinson
805-402-0215
-----
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2018 15:55:54 -0000
We started using Breeze last summer. So far, very happy with it - easy to
figure out, great tech support, easy to customize.
Laurie Lantz
Congregational Administrator
Countryside Church UU
1025 N Smith, Palatine IL 60067
847-359-8440
www.ccuu.org
-----
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2018 22:09:03 -0000
Subject: Progress on wording change for Realm Posting Rules
Hi,
Since there has been no change to the Realm ?Posting? language that we who use Realm agree to, I got in touch with ACST again. According to my contact:
"I apologize that this is taking so long but it is now in the development group?s to do list. Thanks for checking back with us. I will keep you updated.?
When I hear anything I?ll post something to this list.
Thanks,
Kathy Paranya
Unitarian Universalist Society of Oneonta, NY
kparanya at stny.rr.com
-----
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 16:11:04 -0000
Hi,
I received an email message this week from Marvin Owen, President Emeritus of ACST, stating that the change has now been made to the Rules for Posting that all users agree to who use the Realm software. You can view the new wording at https://onrealm.org/about . I am very pleased with the new wording that now has removed the wording about not posting anything that could be construed as ?offensive to Christians? or ?proselytizes non-Christian? beliefs.
The willingness of the ACST company to listen to the issue that we as UUs had with the previous wording and their ability to respond relatively quickly is, I think, a very good sign about the quality of this company. I am glad that we chose Realm when we chose a new database software package.
Kathy Paranya
kparanya at stny.rr.com
Unitarian Universalist Society of Oneonta, NY
www.UUSO.org
-----
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 16:32:42 -0000
Thank you so much for your work on this. Much appreciated! We have been using Realm for a year and are happy with it. It helps to know that the company took the request seriously and made the change.
Darlene Sarkela
Olympia UU Congregation