Welcome to the Mid America Region's Monthly Congregational



Leaders Conversation series.



I'm Lauren Wyeth, one



of your congregational life consultants



and MidAm America's Faith Development Specialist.



I'm a white person in my mid fifties



with curly shoulder length, dark blonde hair



and tortoise shell glasses, and I use she or they pronouns.



From October, 2024 through May, 2025,



MidAmerica regional staff will host a monthly congregational



leaders conversation on an emergent issue,



hopeful development or pressing concern.



In Unitarian Universalism, most will be recorded



and available for viewing



after the event as well, like the one you've tuned in for.



Here we are in a time when religious



communities are in flux.



The conversations we're having now will shape the future



of our faith in significant ways.



And so we set out to bring our whole hearts, our open minds,



and our yearning spirits to the task of meeting this moment



and imagining a way forward together.



If you are a lay or professional leader in a UU congregation



or community, be it in the role of clergy board member,



welcome team, volunteer administrator, youth group advisor,



small group facilitator, religious educator,



or another capacity.



We're glad you've found us.



These conversations are generally held on the second Tuesday



evening of each month, and are facilitated by myself



and the Reverend David Pyle.



Your experience



and perspectives are valuable to the whole body as we face



what is and cast a vision for what may be



equally valuable are your attention



and witness as others



share their experiences and perspectives.



Should you want to join us live for one



of our upcoming conversations, please register



through the MidAmerica webpage at



www.uua.org/midamerica/events.



There's no cost to attend.



Next up you'll learn a bit more about our speakers



and then we'll dive into the conversation.



Thanks for joining us, and welcome.



Well, I'm so grateful to have, uh, the Reverend Meg Riley



and Charles Dimond, our co-moderator for



the Unitarian Universal Association, joining us



for this conversation this evening.



Uh, Reverend Meg is a lifelong,



Unitarian Universalist was raised in congregations in



Charleston, West Virginia and Akron, Ohio, and after,



and served 38 years as a religious professional in various



capacities, including as the minister



of the church at the lar of the larger fellowship.



Reverend Riley retired, uh, in the summer of 2020 and



and served as served these last five years



as our co-moderator with Charles Damond.



And Meg is the co-moderator



that lives here in the MidAmerica region,



in the Minneapolis area where she has deep friendships,



a vibrant community, and loves gardening.



And, um, she's also the, the editor of Testimony,



the Transformative Power of Unitarian Universalism



and the book Shelter in Place Reflections on 2020.



Charles Damond, her co-moderator,



joined the UU congregation, the UUs of San Mateo in 1993,



and has served in every leadership role on the board



of trustees, the president, vice president, treasurer,



financial secretary.



He taught religious education and,



and every age group of our whole lives



and facilitated beloved conversations multiple times,



led a capital campaign,



participated in a ministerial search committee,



developed lay LED services.



Basically, if you can think



of a congregational lay leadership role, Charles has held



that role most likely and beyond his local congregation.



He served on the, the, the, the



u the Pacific Central District Board,



the District's President's Association,



the Regional Leaders Group, the board



of the Star King School for the ministry,



and the advisory board for the eu United Nations office,



as well as the board of the church at a larger fellowship.



Um, he is a PhD in, in Statistics and,



and has brought some of that, those gifts of leadership



and wisdom to our faith tradition



as our co-moderator these last five years.



So, so thank you all both for, for joining us.



You know, when we, when we conceived of this conversation,



um, we had a couple things that we wanted to,



to ask you about.



Well, the first one I'm gonna start with



is really the more practical of them,



and that's to kind of share a little bit of a preview



of this year's general assembly in, in Baltimore in June.



Both, uh, people can attend it online or in person,



and the Mid America region does offer grants for black,



indigenous and people of color to, to be able



to attend leadership events such as, such as this.



Talk to your congregation's, u Uua staff, primary contact.



But what are some of the things



that might happen at this year's general assembly?



So first I think I'll just give my visual description. Uh



Oh, please. Yes,



I'm an older white male, gray haired, gray bearded.



I sort of project grayness.



Um, I have black reading glasses on.



I'm wearing a black hoodie over a purple striped shirt.



I use he and them pronouns.



And actually, I'm, I'm not at my home.



I'm in a generic hotel room in,



uh, mountain Vale, New Jersey.



So I didn't do the decorating. Don't expect anything fancy.



Um, so anyway, at GA what you should expect, um,



the real, the, the juiciest stuff is really gonna come from



the Commission on Social Witness.



Um, so we're gonna start the



Congre Congregational Study Action Issue process,



which is a three year process.



Uh, and we haven't done this for a while



because we've had to do some work



to get this CSW re-energized to be able to, to do this.



We have some great people on there now.



So what that involves is choosing an issue.



And there are three issues that the delegates will have



to consider and vote for to decide which one will be the one



that we pursue in the subsequent years.



And those choices are abolition, is faith formation.



That's one. Two is called Fat Liberation Building Justice



and Inclusion for Larger Bodies.



And the third one is called Housing Diversity,



equity and Inclusion.



And there's a link that can take you to that, uh, website.



You can learn more about it, learn more about them.



There are going to be informational sessions prior to GA



for you to participate in those.



Um, and then, you know, the other thing that always, uh,



brings a little excitement to GA are the actions



of immediate witness or the a i Ws,



also a CSW moderated process.



We don't know what those are gonna be.



Those will come up in the moment.



Um, the board itself is making this more



of a low key ga we think we've sort



of stressed people enough with the,



the Article two work from previous years.



So we're, so we have really, um,



two pieces of business.



One is, um, just keeping the, uh, uh, uh,



business resolution to keep the,



the General Assembly Planning Committee on pause



for another three years while the bylaws renewal



people continue to do their work.



'cause they, they are going



to be presenting a multi-year plan of how they expect



to finish out the process that they started, oh,



I think three or four years ago.



And how they're gonna be bringing things



to the GA in a pro in a process that allows for plenty



of time for people to consider the things



that are gonna be changed or potentially



changed in the bylaws.



Uh, and they've learned a lot of lessons from what happened



with the Article two process.



So they're gonna try and apply those lessons to make sure



that people get well informed.



And the other exciting piece of business is literally



cleaning up the bylaws and taking the word district out



because there are no more districts.



Right. And we're going to, we're,



I don't know if anybody saw last year, we tried



to use the consent agenda to do a small piece of business.



We're gonna try it again with this one.



Um, I promise I will not talk about my knees while we're



doing this one, which is what I had



to do last year while we waited



to see we could do the consent agenda.



Um, um, so that, you know, and,



and you will hear more from the bylaws renewal



team related to their process.



And I think that will be of interest to people as well.



So, so thank you Charles, Reverend Meg, from,



from all the things that were shared, is there anything



that's particularly exciting to you



that you're looking forward



to at this year's ga in, in Baltimore?



Uh, well, I am a fat white woman with short white hair



and a great big black headset and a turquoise shirt on.



And to me, what I think is just such an important time



to be together, you know, community has never



meant more than it does.



And we see that by the number



of people coming into our churches now



who just need community.



And so I think the reason the board is laying really low



with any kind of intensity around agenda is



to really prioritize community.



So as we live into the new covenant that we made last year,



you know, I'm excited about having some people speak about



what does it mean to live with love in the center.



And, uh, so I come in kind of on the, the touchy feelier end



of Ga and Charles and, uh, Stephanie,



who couldn't be here tonight,



really hold down, uh, the business.



But this year's business, as Charles said,



we're really aiming to keep the stress low



and to remember that we are a people.



Because last year people didn't all want



the changes in Article two.



And there were some people who were really



hurt by what happened.



And so we really wanna have a time to, to be together



and for healing and just to remember



that we need each other in this time, even if we don't agree



with each other about some things.



Well, and, and as you say that it, it reminds me



of the times that we've been a ga in the past,



that we've been in General Assembly at in the past,



that things have happened in the world during that week.



And that, that being together as a community in those times,



um, uh, and that's, it seems to me



that there's a significant chance we're going



to experience that again, right?



That things will happen in the world while we are together



during that time period.



And how to be, how to be the beloved community, how



to be this, this living faith tradition during that time.



Seems, seems like, um, a thing that many



of us need is we're seeing in some congregations not all,



but some increased interest in people coming to, uh, explore



and learn about Unitarian Universalism.



Is there anything that, that you would, um,



anything you would say to encourage people



that maybe haven't been to General Assembly in the past,



to think about either coming digitally



or in person this year?



Well, I think for those of us who were out, um, at events



with people who shared our values over the weekend,



we just know it feels good to be with other people



and to people be with people who we can talk



with about real things and what's going on in our lives,



and where we can talk about real history of our country



and without feeling like we're not allowed to.



And, and I, I just feel like to me,



spiritual community and spiritual practice



has never been more important.



And General Assembly is a place not only for the business,



but for worship and music and workshops and learning



and, and living our faith together.



And that's what feels most important to me this year.



And Charles, any anything that you would,



you would encourage people to be able to attend



that maybe haven't before?



Well, even, you know, even beyond just the, the,



the construct of what's going on this year, it's just, uh,



it, if you've never been to a general assembly,



it's just such, uh, a wonderful moment to be with



so many people who share your values and,



and to attend a, a, I was gonna say giant,



but a large worship service with, you know, so many people,



uh, and amazing, uh, speakers and, and singing.



And it's, it's, you know, it's a very, um,



transformative experience, I think for people when you,



when you get to be able to do that.



So I encourage people, you know, I,



and I recognize that it's not a simple thing to get there



and give up your time and give up your money



and all the things that it takes to get there, which is why,



um, you know, we've spent so much effort on



creating the multi-platform experience so that it's



more like ga being there than it had been in the past.



Uh, so, um,



but yeah, I mean, if you can, I have a, a a,



a friend from San Mateo who moved to Sacramento,



and I haven't seen them in a lot of years, who, uh,



who sent me a note saying, Hey, Ian, his spouse are coming



to ga this this year for the first time ever.



He said, will I see you there? I said, yeah, you'll see me.



I'll be the one on stage reading



out the numbers of the votes. Wow.



But yeah, so I mean, people find that, you know,



his kids are all adults now, so it's,



it's taken a while from,



and, you know, so he's engaged in the larger movement,



which I think is just wonderful. So, yeah.



So, so I do know what, there's one thing



that I think is on the business of this year's ga uh,



and that is the moderator election.



I know that you all are not gonna comment on candidates



or anything like that, but is there anything you can share



about the, the moderator election this year?



Yes. That, that we're not gonna continue,



so do better elect somebody.



You gotta elect somebody because



y'all are, y'all are done.



Uh, no, uh, in seriousness, the, the,



the campaigning has begun.



The candidates have been identified.



Um, I think there may be a link that we might be able



to send them to see who the candidates are.



Um, there's going to be forums for people



to ask the candidates questions,



and the voting begins, I think, at the beginning of June.



So ca delegates can vote prior to ga, it's not a vote



that just happens at ga, and it ends at ga.



And the, the new moderators are announced



after the election at ga.



And then there's uh, uh, uh, um,



I think on Sunday we'll install them, right?



Yeah, yeah. On Sunday



there'll be a service where we install them.



Yes.



And so Go ahead back, um,



I just wanna express my gratitude for the people



who are willing to run for this volunteer position.



And, and actually to all the people in the room, um, here



who are taking leadership positions.



It's an extra thing to do.



And, um, it really, I think for me,



and as what I know of the people who are running,



comes from a sense of gratitude



and wanting to give back for



what we've been giving by this faith.



And, um, yeah, so I'm really, I haven't been to a forum yet,



so I don't even honestly know



what the candidates have in mind,



but I'm really delighted that people stepped forward



with willingness, uh, partly because if they hadn't, Charles



and I would be in big trouble.



I mean, we had a five year time because,



and it would've been six years,



but nobody stepped forward the year before.



And Charles was on that search committee where



there wasn't a candidate.



So I am really delighted that there,



there're two viable strong candidates.



And I just wanna shout out thanks to the search committee



who helped to screen them and,



and get them set up as they are.



And to the ECPC, the Election Practices Committee,



who runs the forum, the forum that we have.



Well, Mike, you started to address this,



and I'm gonna invite you to go a little deeper, you know,



five years ago, six years ago,



'cause you had to think about it before the actual election.



Why did you all think about running for moderator?



Why did you choose? 'cause it is a volunteer position.



It is, it is, uh, uh, sometimes I think



a lightning rod in some ways for some of the anxiety



and tension and anti-authoritarianism



that exists in our faith tradition.



So, so why did you all think about doing this,



and why did you say yes?



I tried to make Charles just do it himself.



Let me just say that I started out,



'cause as I said, he was on that search committee



and he had been on the board of the Church



of the Larger fellowship when I was the minister there.



And I was like, you know, I knew he was great.



I knew he was a great leader.



And I was like, why aren't you do it?



And he was like, there shouldn't just



be a white man doing it.



And so then I was like, well, it's not something honestly,



that I ever had considered doing



because it's always been lay leaders.



And I was a religious professional for 38 years.



Um, but as I thought about it, it felt like



the movement had been through so much transition.



Our former moderator, David Key, uh, no, our had died.



Jim Ke. Jim Key. Jim Key, yeah.



That, you know, we'd had a really abrupt change



of leadership in very painful ways.



At the top, there was a lot of trauma in the board.



And it felt kind of like Charles



and me, by being kind of, well, not really having



ego in the game, not having anything to prove at this stage



of our lives, being older, um, I,



I felt like we could just kind of be, in a way,



wallpaper just hold things in a way.



Um, and I, I had heard someone speak about how



to deploy your identity, how to deploy your privilege,



and it felt like there was a lot



of fear in the system about the commitment to anti-racism



and anti-oppression.



And it felt like for people to have someone



who looked like them but wasn't,



was actually really positive about that change



and excited about it was kind of a good moment for that.



You know, there are moments for different kinds



of leaders to be there.



And I could feel the real loss for a lot



of people in not having leaders.



The, the moderators



before us, one was black, one was white, both



of them were gender nonconform, you know, non-binary trans.



And, and that kind of leadership brings a sense of belonging



and recognition for people that I know, Charles



and I don't, we look, we look, even though I'm a lesbian,



we look like mom and pop, you know?



And, um, and, but I think what we do bring is a calmness



and a lot of experience across the movement.



Um, and it just felt like time to use my privilege



to just calm down a minute



and not get so scared about the change in the



transformation, which was gonna happen regardless.



That's why I came in. Charles, why why'd you?



Well, I was, I was, I was saving my expressions of love



for Meg for this moment,



rather than when Meg said hers earlier.



'cause um, you know, um, I have, I have, I've loved working



with Meg over the years,



and so the idea of being able to,



to share this position was really appealing to me.



Um, yeah, and I, I mean, I I,



and I won't deny it, that, that lots of people, uh,



enough people had said to me,



you should do this e even when I was on the moderator search



committee, when we couldn't find one, they said,



they would say things like,



because we go out asking for suggested names, people



who could call and try.



People say, well, you should do it.



And I said, I can't do it. I'm on the search committee.



Who else do you have in mind?



Um, so, um, so it certainly, certainly



that seed had been planted for a while with me,



and I thought about it and, and, you know,



and, um, the struggle was, you know, old, white,



privileged guys get lots of things.



And so, um, I, you know, I've tried to spend more of my time



in the past trying to lift up other people and not be, and,



and, um, and so that was the goal for,



for me in terms of being co-moderator, was to say,



I'll do this job as much as possible



to be empowering others.



Um, rather, you know, Meg knows I, I say this a lot,



it's not about me.



Uh, it's, you know, uh,



and so, um, you know, so, so at ga, you know, um,



you'll see that, you know, in the discussions



and things that are, we bring lots



of other board members forward to have them



experience the role of moderating the discussion.



It's not so much about one person standing up there doing



the whole thing as it has been at times from the past.



So, yeah, I, you know, I just thought it was a,



it was an opportunity, so, sure.



And, and yes, uh, I, you know, I have, um, a lot



of experience and love for the kinds of work



that goes in sort of managing business,



managing communities, putting, uh, uh,



processes together to sort of come to, uh,



consensus like decisions,



even if it's not formally a consensus based system,



you know, doing the work behind the scenes



to get people in agreement.



Um, you know, that's, that's fun for me.



So, so I, I have enjoyed the work, um,



and yes, there are times when people want to make it,



uh, they want to try and just jab at you, you know? And,



Well, that was my next question, was, I was gonna ask both



of you what it been like, what's,



what's it been like this last five years to be in the role



of co-moderator through, through some



of the challenging times that our faith has experienced?



Well, I mean, I wanna start by saying



how lucky we've been first to work



with Susan Frederick Gray and now with Sophia.



And, and the teams that they bring, Carrie McDonald,



Stephanie, Carrie Marin, who, um, holds so much of the work



that we do on governance.



Um, so it's always a team effort.



And, and so when we came in, you know, Susan



and Carrie, they were like on a roll.



They were moving, and we were sort of water skiing



behind them going, what's what, what, what.



And so it's been fun that partway



through the leadership changed,



and we got to be the ones who'd been there for a while



and kind of were steady and having Sophia come in



and implement new things.



So I like the fact



that the leadership doesn't all change at



the same time that way.



We've been really aware because of past difficulties that,



and we didn't run, we didn't, nobody wa ran against us,



so we didn't come in with platforms, commitments, uh,



promises to anyone.



And in a way that was a blessing



because we didn't get into our own agendas.



We really supported what the administration was doing.



Not, not without questioning or discussing,



or, I don't mean to say we just rubber stamped,



but I, we didn't come in



and honestly, if we had campaigned,



I would've made some commitments that have nothing to do



with the work that we've done.



And I, and I'm really glad I didn't



because even though I stick with them, uh, they weren't



what needed to be done right then.



Right? Uh, we also, I should say, we talked to a whole lot



of Bipoc folks before we came forward



to see if there was other leadership.



We did not wanna stand in the way of that.



And what we were told was, uh, no, no,



pay us if you want us to do that.



So I'm really delighted that of the three candidates



who have come in who are black women, um, and,



and I feel like it's a much steadier time



than it was when we came in.



Um, you know, I think different kinds



of leaders are important at different moments.



The hardest part has been,



and I hope nobody who's at this is experiencing this



in your congregation.



I know that a lot of religious professionals do,



because I was a religious professional for 38 years, um,



is contempt is the worst thing.



It's fine if people disagree with you, they don't like



what you're doing, they have a different idea.



But if they act like, well,



of course you're doing it that way.



'cause you don't care what I,



that's really painful when you're giving of your time



because you love something to be accused of, basically,



you know, being an authoritarian, um, Charles



and I, if we are authoritarians, are not very good at it



because we're always asking for input.



And so I would say that's the hardest thing is contempt.



And, you know, therapists



and everyone say that will destroy any relationship.



And so, again, I really hope no one who's here tonight is



experiencing that in your leadership role in your



congregation, because that's really, really painful.



The number, I'm come to Charles in a second,



but the number of congregational leaders,



especially board presidents that have at some point said



to me as a consultant working with them, something like,



you know, I had friends in this congregation



before I became the board president.



Or, you know, no one talks to me in coffee hour anymore.



If they talk to me, they only



talk to me about what they're mad about.



Right? I mean, so that, that, that, that place, that space



of the, the, the sometimes anti-authoritarianism



and it plays out in relationship to whoever's in leadership



that happening amidst the leadership that is doing it



because of their love of this shared faith



is sometimes a really hard place all that many



of our leaders get trapped in.



And, and Charles, I don't know if there's anything you want



to add to what Meg shared about your experience



of this last five years, what it's been like.



Well, I also wanna lift up the, um,



the commission on institutional change report, right?



Mm-hmm. That really provided the agenda for



what we wanted to work on.



Um, and, you know, we'll,



I think in our report this year at ga we'll sort



of reflect back on how what we did



and didn't do from that report and how that work went.



Um, and, you know, we, we openly said, you know,



we wanted to be collaborative with this EUA staff,



and we didn't want it to be an antagonistic thing.



Uh, we wanted it to be a collaborative relationship.



And, and we had a board,



or the people who've been through



that board in those five years who agreed that that was,



that was what they wanted to do as well.



So, um,



that made it a much more pleasant experience for anyone.



I will also note that, um, when we decided to do this,



it was the fall of 2019.



And so how we envisioned what our, what our,



what our role would be



and how it would go, you know, as everyone else



was envisioning their lives in 2019,



by the time we became the co-moderator in June of 2020,



it was an entirely different world, as we all know.



And so it's been, you know, a lot of, we can look back at



what former moderators and Comos did,



but we had to do it in an entirely different environment.



So we were adapting.



And, uh, you know, um,



Meg, Meg teaches us a class and, uh, what is it?



Improvisation.



Improvisation, that's the word I was looking for. Sorry.



Yeah, No, there you go.



Yeah. It, it just, it just struck me.



You said that, that we, my, I became regional lead



of MidAmerica at the same time



that you all became co-moderator.



So that, that time of having



to reinvent the wheel several times, um, oh,



is there anything you all wish you'd done differently?



Well, I was just thinking when I came in, I talked to Mr.



Reve, who was the moderator



before us, who said, you know, you'll be surprised



how slowly it'll go



and how little you'll actually get done in five years,



because I was like, five years is such a long time.



That's the longest commitment I ever walked in a door



making to anything.



I've stayed longer than five years,



but I never came in committing to it.



And Charles will attest



that I got a little claustrophobic there in the middle



going five years.



But, you know, Barb was right.



Things do move slowly, they move at the speed of



institutional church.



And, um, I wish, I wish that we had



been able to do some things that we just are just slower.



You know, we started out thinking



by now we'd have new bylaws.



Well, we're not remotely ready to have new bylaws.



We have a process for bringing people into creating



new bylaws, you know?



Um, and the Commission on Institutional change.



There's some stuff that we absolutely have accomplished



and other stuff five years



after that report that I wish we'd gotten further along



with, it's taken a really long time to come through



with some of the recommendations in a way that works.



We've had to iterate and iterate and iterate,



and that's just life.



But, you know, you, you look back



and you think, well, why'd we do that?



But it's hindsight,



Charles, Uh, um, well, you know,



the first ga, the first thing I know was the first thing,



it was one of the first things we said is



that we're gonna make mistakes and we'll apologize



and learn from them and move on.



So, yeah, sure. Uh, all those things



that we made mistakes on



and apologize for, I would've



preferred to have done differently.



Um, but I'm not perfect. I'm broken, like everyone is.



So, um, so, uh, so there's that.



I, you know, and,



and just, you know, living with the fact that, you know,



you're gonna make mistakes, um, you, you just sort



of approach the work a little bit differently,



I think, that way.



So I don't, I don't, you know, yes.



I wish, I wish things moved faster.



Uh, you know, and,



and I have, you know, a lot of old white guy symptoms



where I think, oh, it should just be a box.



We'll just do this thing. We'll check it off.



And then, yeah, racism is gone. This is gone.



You know, the world doesn't work that way.



I, I know this, the work continues, the work



goes on and on and on.



And so, you know, you just think, you know,



did I make the right choices in the moments when I had



an opportunity to do something?



Um, and if I didn't, then can I go back



and revisit that with the people



that I made the wrong choice with?



So, you know.



Well, uh, well, I think we have time



for kinda one more question,



and there's gonna be a question to answer section after,



and people can, can ask



questions, they're gonna have time in the groups.



But I wonder, knowing that we have congregational leaders



that are here with us



and that are watching this video, is there anything



that from your five years as in, in the role of being the,



the con the, the equivalent of congregational leaders



for our faith tradition, that, that you would offer



as a reflection or a bit of wisdom



or a thought for those serving in leadership



roles in congregations?



Right now?



You want me to go first? Um,



because, uh, as you noted, I did spend a lot



of time in those congregational leadership roles.



Yes. Yeah. So, um, uh,



and I, I guess I would add to board president,



the other person who gets avoided at coffee hours,



the person who's leading the pledge drive, um, like, oh,



I know they're gonna talk to me about money.



I'm gonna do something else now. Um, so, um,



so I think, and,



and people have made some comments about this, about,



uh, our calmness.



Um, and, and that I think is the challenge for



you in the congregation



and, you know, for us in the larger association is just,



you know, to not sort of react in the moment over



overreact in the moment to something that happens, right?



To, to have a certain comments about it, to say, okay,



so this is what's happened.



What's the problem? What are,



what are the possible solutions?



You know, where can we look for that and, and,



and be collaborative?



I think it's, it's not about being the boss.



It's about how do I collaborative, uh, you know,



people would say to me that I,



I had too much power at the church from time to time



because I would be doing a couple different things.



I, and I, and I'd say power to do what?



I mean, it's the free church. You can't buy a pew.



I don't get my own view anymore.



Uh, so, so I, I, I just, I just think, you know,



that's the anti-authoritarian thing coming through



and just know that that's running in the background



and find some way to sort of diffuse it to sort



of get people back to why we are here, what,



what are we trying to do, and



how are we all working together?



That's, that's the best advice I have.



Thank you, Charles. Any thoughts, Meg?



Yeah, I would say the joy



and the strength comes from team building for me.



So knowing as Charles said, that we're part of the board



as a team and really thinking about it



that way rather than we are the leaders that,



that we're all leading in different parts of it.



And so to really enjoy each other,



and, you know, we've mostly been on Zoom,



and so we, we haven't had the around the edges time



to just goof around and laugh that you do when,



when you are, um, together.



Um, yeah, as I assume people are in congregations mostly,



but even so, you can take time to call people,



check in on 'em, see how they're doing, write 'em a note.



I, I just think for me, I, I'm an extrovert,



obviously you probably are picking that up, but,



but those connections with the other people.



My, my love for Charles, my love for other board members,



that's what gives me strength for, um, for some



of the crappy stuff because I know I'm not in it by myself.



That the misery,



I think is when you really feel like you're just having



to hold something alone.



And so to build systems so that you don't feel that way



and to invite other people in on the misery, you know, we,



there have been meetings



where we've had private slack channels, um,



making snarky comments about people



who are being contemptuous so that we're remembering



that we have other relationships going on.



Perhaps not, that's not the most mature way to deal with it,



but it is, um, sustaining in the moment when you're like



trying to stay calm



and you're, you're not wanting to overreact to remember



that, that you're part of a team.



And I know, uh, 'cause boards can be great



and they can be kind of, um, a bunch of people



who don't quite fit together.



I, I would say, to try to take some time



to really find each other's humanity and,



and the, the spiritual piece of the work.



Well, I wanna thank you both not only for this time,



but for your service to our faith



and to, to the shared community



and to the vision of the world made whole, that I, that is



what holds me in, in, in this, in this religious community,



the vision that, that we can be better.



And so I wanna thank you all for that,



and I wanna thank you for being so welcome back everyone.



I see we are recording again.



So, um, I hope you all had some thoughts about questions



that you came up with,



and we're gonna invite you



to put those questions in the chat, um, uh,



that you would like me to be able to ask,



and I may ask you to, uh, uh, to un unmute.



We usually have a question for time for three



or four questions, but as we are putting them in the chat,



I want to ask a first question to, uh, to Charles



and Reverend Meg is, um, you know, what's one thing



that maybe isn't obvious to people about what it's like



to serve on the board of trustees of the UUA?



So what's not obvious



because it hasn't happened for a while, is



that we actually have two dedicated youth



positions on the board.



Um, and they're defined very



specifically in terms of age and, uh, and duration.



So it's a two year term for the youth.



They have all the same, there used to be sort



of a youth observer position.



This is actually a legitimate trustee position.



They get to vote, they get



to do all the things everyone else does.



Um, but we think it's probably overly constrained in terms



of the age,



because it's basically sort of asking



sophomores in high school



to decide they wanna spend two years



attending board meetings.



Uh, but we would love to have youth.



We had a couple of youth when we first joined the board,



but, uh, we don't have them now.



Um, but yeah, so



that's a great opportunity if somebody is at that place



where they can choose to make that choice.



Anyway, said that awkwardly. There you go,



Meg.



Yeah, they really brought a lot that I,



I think we've all really missed since we didn't have youth.



Well, one thing I was wishing that I had mentioned is



that the board has two chaplains.



We inherited them,



and I don't know, I would've thought of it,



but I'll tell you what I and many others have used them.



It's the Reverend Chris be from Tennessee Valley UU Church,



and the Reverend Danielle DiBona, who



I think finally is officially retired,



although she'll never stop,



but you know, they're both there, um, when we need them.



And after one particularly emotional



general session last year at General Assembly,



I didn't even know how upset I was.



And the phone rang and it was Danielle



and I just burst into tears immediately



and she was like, yeah, I knew you needed to do that.



And it, and so I just wanted to say that that is a role



that could be in any congregation.



They obviously, probably, well,



in some congregations there are like,



I'm a minister who's not a minister at my



church, but I just go there.



But, but they wouldn't have to be ordained to be chaplains



for, for boards



or committees that are doing work that's stressful.



It's really lovely to have someone, only role is to care



for the spiritual wellbeing of the group.



Hmm.



Well, thank you. So, so the first question I, that,



that popped into the chat is from one of our, uh,



MidAmerica board of trustees members, uh, David Jack Away.



Um, uh, David asked the question,



should the moderator position be compensated?



Well, it can't by Massachusetts law,



so it doesn't matter whether it should, it can't.



Um, so, um, we do have some provisions it, um,



in, in policies that would allow someone who was serving



as moderator who lost wages for the work to be compensated



for their lost wages.



And, uh, that that is legal for us to do.



But there is no salary. There can't be because of the law.



But you all do have some support for travel costs



and things like that,



Right? Well, we're not paying for



to, to go to General Assembly



or, you know, to do the other travel that we do.



There's, yeah, there



and there's, there's money for board members



who wanna attend conferences or, you know, training.



So there is some financial support,



but yeah, it's, it's definitely



as it is in congregations, a volunteer.



We get a lot of free books too. That's a plus.



Well, that's something I, I didn't know, I didn't know



that Massachusetts, uh,



nonprofit law prevents the moderator's



position from being compensated.



Thank you for sharing that. Shirley Adams has a question



about how involved are the moderators throughout the year?



How involved are you in the work of the association?



How often do you meet?



How, how much time does this volunteer role



take for you all?



I came in with, uh, a little, uh,



let's say, well, I'll say pride about how differently



I was gonna do it, and it just was gonna be five



hours a week, darn it.



'cause two people are splitting it



and it's, it's, it's not, I mean, we're involved with,



we, we have our lanes.



We don't duplicate our time,



but we, uh, we do stay pretty involved



with the various things going on.



I went to all the article two meetings



and you know, I, I go to the general assembly



advisory meetings and I, you know, that we meet



with administration and with Stephanie.



And so, you know, I don't know Charles,



how many, I can't remember.



We came up with hours when the candidates asked us,



what do we say, 10 hours a week each



Between, yeah, between the two



of us is it's 10 to 20 hours a week.



Um, yeah, we're doing stuff.



Um, and uh,



because we, you know, we engage with many



of the board committees as well to, to,



to help them achieve their goals.



Um, and, uh, and Megan



and I are very good at sort of saying, okay,



this is the pieces that I'm gonna do



and these are the pieces that I'm gonna do.



And, um, and then we meet regularly



and review with what, what has happened in those two pieces.



So we both stay well informed of what's going on.



Um, but yeah, that's about right.



And then at GA just everything.



Then a GA is like 80 hours for the, you know,



it's the whole, the whole time.



I, I, I'm gonna ask a follow-up question,



and that is, how much of that time that you spend that 10



to 20 hours a week, how much of that is related to the,



you relating to the UUA's lay leadership structure?



Not lay but non-staff leadership structures,



and how much of that time is in relationship



and support with the staff, with senior



staff, the administration



Kind of split?



Yeah, I, I mean, as Charles said,



there are a whole bunch of board committees



that we stay in touch with.



Um, and



so does the UUA leader staff



leadership stay in touch with them?



Most of them. And so mostly



it's integrated, the staff work, working with staff



and working with lay leaders, um, pretty much.



Cool. Thank you.



So Lydia, Lydia lineal asks, based on your experience,



how do you balance your own spiritual practice



with the work you are doing



for the church when they are intertwined?



I'm at work every Sunday. Where can I have church too?



That is so real. I mean, that was, yeah,



that was real when I was a religious professional.



Yep. Right. I started going to Buddhist Sangha



because I wanted to be with people



and the people at the SGA would've died laughing if they



ever heard I was a minister.



'cause I just went there and fell apart, you know,



or did whatever I needed to do.



I certainly didn't go in like I was



in any way set apart from anyone else.



And it's really important to be able to do



that, to stay human.



Um, I think it's actually easier with the volunteer role



because I, I can go to a UU church



and I'm not in leadership there locally,



but if you are serving in a congregation,



I think it can get harder and harder to, I mean,



and I see people at my own church, I see the leaders,



they're not in services.



They're talking to each other back about



business in the library.



You know, like they're, they're that that role



that you're in can take over what it means to be at church.



So I think however it works for you, it is really critical,



especially in this time to have either a small group



or maybe you meet with some other leaders regularly



and do a reading and, and check in or whatever it is.



But to have a place where you really land as fully human.



Um, and I would say as a minister, I'm really privileged



to have colleagues that I meet with weekly.



And, um, that has held me through the board work



as well as other things.



But, um, and I know, I mean, I'll be curious, Charles,



what you, you go to a whole lot of churches,



but I would say from watching Charles, that he



and his wife Barbara, are absolutely a spiritual team.



I mean, there's just no question in my mind how,



how much you all talk everything over



and, um, are connected about this work



and how much that gives you. Well,



I also try to make it all spiritual work for me.



You know, beg the, the, the Quaker approach that a meeting



for business is a meeting for worship.



So, um, so I always try to see it all integrated together.



And if I, if there's some piece that is missing, then I,



I look for other ways to do it.



So for instance, I'll, I'll, I'll share that this,



this past weekend there was a conference in Fairfax,



Virginia, uh, on



how do we understand our UU theology



or theologies as we came to say at, uh, at that conference.



And, uh, and it was a, it was a brilliant, uh,



spiritual moment for me to be with those people



for three days and to, to consider the things we,



so I find lots of different places where I can sort



of get into a space and be rejuvenated by that as well.



Not this. And, and yeah, I mean, I am not, um,



doing the work of a volunteer at any church right now.



I, uh, go to a number of them



and one that's closest



to me will probably become my home church right after GA.



But, um, but I haven't volunteered to do anything there.



Oh, I'm sorry. They asked us to lit the chalice on Sunday.



So I did lit the chalice this past Sunday.



And I would say to know what, where you get the, like,



is it singing for you?



Is it being quiet with people? Is it sitting around a fire?



Is it dancing? Like, where do you,



and for me, as Charles mentioned, it's improv.



I not only take a class every week,



I teach a class at the church every week



because that is a spiritual practice for me.



I garden like, so finding your own spiritual practices



and really sticking with them, um,



in this time I think is absolutely essential.



So we have just a couple more



minutes for one last question.



And, uh, this is from the Reverend Dr. Claudia Remes.



And, uh, they ask, uh, what partnerships



outside the UUA do you think will be most important



for the next five years, I assume



for Unitarian Universalism,



and how might we be cultivating local relationships



with branches of the same organizations



to contribute to the larger work?



You know, when I worked at the  UUA,



that was my work was, was making all those connections.



And I've really dialed back in that as moderator,



some other moderators, Denny Davidoff was very involved,



but, uh, I haven't had the capacity to do that



as I do this work.



And Sophia's doing a lot of it.



The president, she's really connected to the presidents



of some of the other denominations like the UCC



in really powerful ways.



And um, and certainly we work closely



with groups like Pink Haven



and, uh, you know, habitat for Humanity.



But I think different communities are gonna find different



partnerships that are really strong



because different communities are, are really different.



And my local, even here in Minneapolis, St.



Paul, in the suburbs, there are, I don't know



how many churches, Davidm 15 around here,



Uh, just about that. Yeah.



Yeah. And, and all of them have different partnerships



depending on who's there and what they're doing



and how they're connected



and, you know, so I,



I don't think there's like a one size fits all on that,



but I do think being in touch with groups that are led by,



uh, and groups that take us out of our comfort zone, um,



and also of course, groups that are really targeted, uh,



for oppression in this current moment are really important.



However, they manifest in your local community.



I've always, I mean, 'cause I worked in DC for years



and did all the connections with the DC groups,



but the national groups



and the local groups are really different.



And there could be a group that has fabulous local groups in



three different cities, but the national



is not even that great.



So I, I don't think there's a one size fits all that,



but I would say that it's really,



really important wherever you are to be in relationship



that's powerful and life-giving and generative.



Well, I want to thank you both.



We are at time and I want to thank you both for this, not



for this time with us



and coming to be with the leaders of MidAmerica



and sharing of your experience.



And also, I, I want to express my deep gratitude



and, uh, for the service you have given,



not just in this five years



that you have been the co-moderator of our faith,



but also the years of service and dedication.



Uh, I think that one of the challenges is



that no one thanks our leaders in this faith very often,



but the moderators do the moderators every year at GA,



thank the leaders of our congregations and our communities.



And I want to thank you for being the ones who do that



and also for your own service.



And so thank you.



And I will hand it back to my colleague Lauren.



Yeah. Thank you Charles and Meg. Thank you David.



Thank you for Chanel.