well hello hello hello welcome Ginger and Ben it is so good that you are here today um we are just so excited here at the uua to have you be in dialogue with me about what is happening at neighborhood YuYu in Pasadena California I am the Reverend summer alati I use see her pronouns and I am on congregational Life field staff in the Pacific western region and at the uua and I it is so wonderful to have what I refer to as the dynamic duo here today for us to be in dialogue about um Young Adult Ministry in particular and so I want to invite you to introduce yourselves and say a little bit about where you are located my name is ginger Fury I am the membership and Communications manager at neighborhood unarian Universal Church in Pasadena um and I use she her pronouns and I'm super excited to be here with you guys today yeah hi uh I'm Ben hosking I am a lifelong uyu I'm Southern California resident he I use he him pronouns um and if people are listening to this just on audio I'm a white man with glasses and a gray shirt currently and uh I am also co-founder with ginger of The UU 2030 project which is um a Consulting Group built to enhance Young Adult Ministry in congregation So congregationally based Young Adult Ministry so let us sort of begin with the story of how this dynamic duo came about just tell me the story whoever would like to begin the story of of the young adult group at neighborhood and what um came to pass so I was looking for a church in November 2021 I think yeah around when I remember and I know that a lot of churches were starting to reopen for inperson services around then and I was looking around and I thought oh this one looks great it's in Pasadena it's near me I live in Los phiz and Los Angeles um it's about a 20 minute drive and you know I checked it out I liked the the minister I like the music and all these things and then I don't know how it happened but I think I ran into Ginger I think or maybe mention it to the minister who then put me in touch with ginger about how I had run very briefly some young adult you know Discussion Group at a church long ago in in actually in Australia that was a u uu uh Church there and I said to Ginger why don't we start a young adults group here you know Ginger being also a young adult um and I thought uh well this a good spot to do it because at the time neighborhood was and it is about is a midsize congregation so it has enough people coming in the door that I felt that we could build a sustainable young adults group there um and then once we got that started I think we started with a group of four people it was Ginger myself and two members who had grown up in the church um but soon their friends who they went to um youth religious education with started attending and then friends of them started attending people who came in the door who would show up to service after service Ginger myself would approach them if they looked like they were likely in their 20s and 30s which is what our general age bracket that we look for um um and we'd see if they were interested in coming to our young adults group and we started with twice twice a month so every other Wednesday at 7:30 pm we had a spiritual Focus discussion which I would say somewhere hybrid between if people are familiar with a chalice Circle which is small group Ministry discussion around topic or a reading and a service because we did have a formal program we had a structure we had an order of worship in a sense we had a hymn which is usually a pop song relevant to that particular week's discussion and in the beginning we used um some uua materials and then expanded from there in terms of the actual content and topics would be things like Community or family or belonging uh with a reading and um yeah started with four people and I think now we're at around 15 to 20 every Wednesday which is not always the same folks so we actually have a larger group that I think is upwards of 50 on our e-list now um of which many of which these uh attendees have now since become members at neighborhood Unitarian Universalist Church which is something that we're very proud of that we've managed to get people who came in the door might not have otherwise join and become pledging members who are now pledging they're volunteering they're on committees they're sitting on the board things like that um so I'm pretty proud of that work and I would love for ginger to talk about sort of the behind the scenes El yeah absolutely um yeah so a large part of my role in membership is um uh supporting folks and finding ways to connect with the church and right off the bat I saw that there was this this hole this gap of uh people in their 20s and 30s that would show up once and disappear and never come back and so I was thrilled thrilled thrilled when Ben came up to me as a complete stranger and said hey I want to do this I said let's do it h and I was very fortunate to have the support of our Minister um uh to allow space in my uh work schedule as well to be able to support Ben and give him the resources that he needed to get this off the ground um and what was really clear to me was that uh we had so much programming for youth we really fortunate to have a great uh spiritual exploration youth religious education program um and we have a lot of programming on the other side that's supported that's been around a long time has Ben mentioned small group Ministries Affinity groups um various different programs that have been baked into the church for many many many years um and this this space in between of no longer being a teenager and not quite being ready yet to um commit to later in life topics uh was a was a real need and so um yeah so I was really excited to be able to support him in that and and getting that off the ground and it was it was really quite amazing how quickly it grew um and what I identified that people were really looking for was um that structure they wanted spiritual religious uh Deep dive topics they weren't just looking for friendship though that was a large part of it um and they were looking for an opportunity to talk about these hard topics of life and to to go to those deeper places and have that spiritual set aside time um and so I think that was really unique about what Ben and I started creating and asking people and uh Gathering data on was that um yeah they they wanted to learn about Unitarian universalism they want wanted to talk about um those topics that where else in your life can you go to talk about these things if not Church um but the structure of a Sunday morning whether that be just because it is Sunday morning or the more formal Church structure or the topics that the ministers preaching about we're not quite resonating with them um so that's why I think this was such I believe it grew so quickly because it was really touching off something that people were uh really looking for yeah I would just um Echo Ginger's point about that it people come to church for religious and spiritual community and the key words is spiritual and community and so both those things are important and what I'm so proud of is that we started with spiritual community and that led to a much stronger and more robust social community that came out of the group so you know we we joke it's it's spirituality first potluck second not that potlucks aren't important and we do have a monthly potluck as as as a group um which is very well attended and really popular but that happened after and I think building those spiritual relationships the sort of intimacy of a discussion group early with a covenant and everything helped those events Thrive and since then we've had everything from run clubs to co-working spaces to Dodger games I think we all went to a Dodgers game I think like 15 of us or so um Dogers Christmas parties lots of stuff so um and for the who are not huge on Sports Dodgers are the baseball team for Souther California I didn't know I was not this is my first baseball game that I went to was with a uyu group um so you know that all came out of starting with the spiritual programming um and I think it just it really grew from there uh and now we even have a an active chat server where people can propose events to each other and a lot of friendships have come out of this that I don't think would necessarily have existed had they not met at group it's a gateway drug into the church in a way I mean you know in a nice way but you know a lot of people become active participants on Sundays and in committee and in Social Justice having started just with this group yeah I was gonna Echo that and say you know their connection to the group uh which then led to the friendships that spilled over into our larger Community as well um because they really were seeing how much their cup was getting filled you know and and even like sitting together in the pews you know one person would be like okay let's go on Sunday and there's kind of now a young adult section where they feel like they have this little community and they're all sitting in a certain area um you know several of them have now volunteer to be teachers H for the younger Youth and I've seen sort of a trend there where it's like oh my gosh we have a young adult that almost like every other grade level there you know um so I think that that's really uh just a beautiful thing to to witness and it speaks to the power when you take the time to really carve out that that programming and think about what are those topics ICS that young adults want to talk about right and a lot of people have asked me um because this isn't the first time we're not the first ones to come up with the young adult group this isn't even the first time that it was offered at neighborhood um but like why is it successful right and I think to Ben's Point spirituality first and then building into Community is a large part of that uh if we had started with let's all get together and be friends and go to a potluck uh there's a lot of opportunity for that and especially in a place like Los Angeles and the Greater Los Angeles area there are plenty the plethora of opportunities to be social and have fun and go do things I think it's a really big part of it so I have a million million in one questions I will ask you one right now or I will ask you to say more um you know so one of you like I'm G to State the obvious one of you is Staff here and one is volunteer and so I'm just curious as to you know we talk a lot in congregational life about the mission of the the congregation right and is everything connected to the mission but I think something we you know when I teach about Covenant I do a lot of Consulting on covenants and covenanting right um this idea of what is your Covenant or your personal mission right with with the world right and so I I kind of want to maybe offer or ask you to maybe talk about you know it's one thing to say hey we need more young adults you know to F fulfill you know a need I might have right or we get a lot of congregations asking you know saying oh we want we want more I mean this is across the board we want more young people we want more young people right and and so I I often talk about Mission but then how does that tie into maybe your own personal mission your own personal Covenant whatever it may be um your personal mission in life Covenant with the world whatever Covenant with the community how does that all tie into to what you what you felt called we often in Ministry call it a calling right like how how you know people will ask you what's your call story and I talk about how I was called the ministry right so so why don't you talk a little bit about that and how that sort of plays into what you created Andrew you want to take this one first sure um so I'm G going to that's a beautiful question thank you for offering that um I'm going to kind of speak to that from a staff perspective and I'll let Ben talk as as a member but you know from a staff perspective um we we Covenant a lot of things but one of the things that we're in Covenant with is to you know grow and create a religious liberal community and that neighborhood we say Guided by love and spirit and um I think that it's that that question of who's at not at the table when we're making these decisions and when we're talking about what's to come in the future both for the congregation specifically and also for the religion as a whole um um that that is the future and that sounds really cliche and cheesy you know but that and of course our youth are as well but in the more immediate in the next you know five years 10 years um those are the people that are going to be inheriting the church that are going to be on the board that are going to be affected by governance decisions or churchwide decisions or or larger you know larger arching denominational decisions and so the calling for me was really that I wanted to know that we were hitting the uh lifespan of our religious community um and I wanted to know that those voices those perspectives those hopes and those dreams and those wishes um were being met uh because there I really do take that idea seriously that we are a lifespan religious education community that we encourage lifelong learning that we are leaning into this idea that we are a living tradition and um that means things change and the world changes and we change and we adapt and so for me there was this very strong calling of um if that group is not represented then how is that affecting our work as a church as a congregation as a staff as leadership um you know if those voices if those perspectives are not on your board at the table sitting on your committees not because just because they are young and I want to really emphasize that this is not a tokenism this is not young people are cool this is you know coming coming up with ensuring that the whole um spectrum of ideas you know that the the folks have been at our church for 40 years that we want to hold that history and the people that are brand new to Unitarian viralism why are you coming in and why are you joining um so it was very important to me as a membership manager to be making sure that that those spaces we were creating were um well-rounded and so that was really my calling um because at the time I did not see that um it was another voice that was sort of left out of the conversation um and I knew that in order to do it in a way that felt sincere and authentic first we needed to say you have a place here it was not going to feel authentic to find Ben on the patio and be like good you're here join this committee right oh great you showed up want to be on finances you know want to be on pledge drive that would have felt uh in athentic like who are you Ben or who are you this young adult I want to get to know you I want to hear your hopes your dreams your stories and your wishes and I want you to know you have a place here and then I'd like you to be a part of our larger Community right um so so it is a little bit of a planting a seed and watching it grow and that was really part of um my calling was I wanted to to carve out that area to to plant those seeds because I feel very passionately that those will grow that those will will have those longer term effects um authentically so yeah what about you Ben yeah uh I mean I think for me this is about as close as I'll get to Ministry in terms of formal Ministry so you know I've had many be like Ben go to Divinity School and I said no I'm a filmmaker and a director I'm sticking to that but how can I contribute to um both the support and growth of Unitarian universalism which has been important to me for a long time U as a spiritual Community where we find our path together in love and and respect and spirit and I thought also you know I wouldn't say selfishly but you know I wanted a community of people in my age bracket who weren't necessarily affiliated with my job or my location and um building a community at neighborhood has been really great for that it's provided not just a spiritual Community but also a peer and friend community of um folks who I respect and know and and care about um and I think that that's may I wanted to see built for not just me but for other folks um at church and I think that the other thing to remember is we as a as a as a faith I would love to see us be full of life rather than I think what often happens and I've noticed is and it's really interesting to see is that people will come as children with their parents and then around 18 fall off and then return when they themselves have young children and so you're getting a lost decade between about 18 and late 20s early 30s where you don't we just don't have you there's not there's not programming or a space where those folks feel like they belong and want to be at unitan universalism at at uu churches so what I thought was well because the other thing is is that if you have th just those two groups um that's how people get in is they they come as children or they come later because they remember fondly of their childhood as a uu you're actually also limiting your um diversity in the congregation because what you have is we are historically have been a very white denomination and so if you just have families like that coming in and like that you're not going to have the breadth and diversity of the of of of the America frankly coming in through the door and what I hope is that by doing this by getting you U who are in their 20s and 30s or people who are not you who are who are looking for a spiritual home but earlier that will be able to get them in before they've even have kids and so they're not just joining because they want to have a spiritual home for their kids but they're joining because they want a spiritual home for themselves and they found it and so my hope is that by getting Folks at hold of life and and in this case filling that need for 20s and 30s we would ensure a more robust Faith going forward um and I think that creating this programming is great it also gets people frankly in the mindset and habit of I have a church earlier um which I think can be really helpful in terms of the financial robustness and stability of a congregation and I think this is something that Ginger and I have talked about one of the great things about the group and what we want to really see is we want to see congregationally based young adult groups because we want ultimately for not only for young adults to have a spiritual home but to be able to then give back in service whether that's in um you know Talent Tre time Talent treasure I think is what our church calls it um to be able to get back to that community and um what I and building a congregationally centered young adults group allows those members to then become more involved in the church and become pledging members and help sustain our congregationally based faith I mean I think it's important to remember we're not like the Catholic church we can't just have a encompassing program for the LA metro area and be able to build that sustainably I think that it's important that we have congregational Health around Young Adult Ministry I want Ben I want to highlight something you just said about um you know it's a really long period of time right so when you think of 20s and 30s decade you use the word decades right and there's so much life happening and there's always life happening and any you know I believe in any age of Life there is so much happening but especially during that time um you know they they we we're doing a disservice by not lifting up how informative those years are for people's lives and how much pain and struggle and suffering and joys and celebrations and there's so much happening you know within our own uh group here you know our own 45 of us I could go down the list of marriages and weddings I mean um you know babies um deaths graduation you know there's so much happening and I think that that is the time when it's what is it that a church can offer you that other areas of your life can't and there's so much right how is it different to be thinking about um being in romantic relationships or starting a family or your career path and knowing that you have a minister or you have Ben or you have myself or you have all these people that love you and support you and can turn to you and what a different experience experience that is to be going through those um that's really where you start to plant the seeds for most people of kind of forward paths careers families Etc um and it's such a different experience you know to be able to have our elders in the church there to support you a minister to help guide you through that um peers at your own age um so I think that's also really important to not to not lose in this is just how much life is there and how much is going on um and it always amazes me in our in our small little group you know even if there's 10 or 15 of us in a room I'm like wow we're holding a lot here there is such severe struggle and pain and there's such extreme joy and celebration and um excitement for life um and if that's on such a um small scale here you know how I can only imagine how Amplified that is to to the rest of the world um and then that's that's something that takes um not everybody has that and I think that's really special you know I can't imagine my own life um how different it would be if I didn't have a minister to turn to If I Didn't Have a church to support me through that um so so it's it's really a gift yeah I would add I mean just you know in terms of the sort of peer support nature of it I think it goes without saying that in our age demographics and Millennials and Z folks there is a lot of anxiety depression fear about the future um and frankly isolation and loneliness this group can provide every other week a time for someone to talk about how they're feeling about those things or talk about you know their fears their hopes their Joys and then have peers to support them or even give offer you know like offer help or or support and you know we I because we have somewhat we have a range of people in their early 20s and in their early 30s we have the ability for these sort of peer mentorships to you know other folks have been there and they're able to provide support and guidance sometimes to each other in a way that I think is really fruitful and because it's again because we started with spiritual Community people trust each other and they feel you know comfortable sharing what's really going on with them and being able to be in community and be in love and be in connection with others to work through whatever difficulties or Joys that they're going through in their life yeah absolutely I mean I think you are hitting on something so in terms of you know a Ministry you're really ministering to right it's just not about how can the congregation get but how can you serve the community and you have identified that there is a need right that there is a need for those in their 20s and 30s to be held in love to they're they're finding out who they are you know um not everybody comes into let's say call knowing fully their values and their morals and their ethics and all of that and that's a time in which they're they're being shaped you know we all we know from science that brains haven't fully grown yet fully developed right um and and so I you know I kind of I think in terms of that right you're bringing up the anxiety you know there's anxiety there's trauma we we are humanity is holding so much right the Earth you know not just Humanity I feel like the animals and the plants are holding all that we are holding as well and then you know so if if this is a ministry right connected to your personal missions right how is it connecting to the mission of the congregation in support of because it can be easy to go okay you to Dynamic Duo you take care of that you you go handle that take care of the you go get us the young adults right you go take care of that right and and and then how does the whole congregation then see this as a mission a a big mission serving a need within the community that is going to also develop their needs and develop them as a congregation because what I hear a lot of and I don't know if this is your experience in neighborhood I mean I we will name that it's one of our larger congregation so we will get to you know a little peek into another question I might have is how you might help smaller congregation ations right but I hear over and over again we're an aging congregation we're an aging congregation we so right so Ben you bring up oh you know historically white denomination right I hear aging congregation and how and and how do we help right these aging congregations no longer be aging right so there's a lot that's going on there um I'm just gonna sort of place this here because I have a lot more connected to that but I think that's enough for now yeah I would I would love to talk about that a little bit you know I will be very honest that is I think um why it was so important that Ben and I had a lay leader and staff Duo uh because uh to put that all on him as a member to be advocating and sometimes in disagreement or pushing up against uh other members at the church would have been a very large ask so as a staff I am in a unique position where I can come in and kind of you know call a timeout for a second and say listen if you are going to hold this as a Ministry you have to be willing to change and that is uncomfortable for people and that can mean little things very little things like offering meetings in the evening offering meetings on Zoom um you know things tweaks like that like guess every single committee meeting we offer is 11 o'clock on a Tuesday in person you are automatically shutting a door on on this age group right uh but you would be surprised for some people how that what that brings up for them to say oh hold on what if we did this at five o'clock on a Monday night and it was on Zoom right so there's some of that that that needs to happen um and there's also the um the recognition that you have to be willing to listen and hold space for what is different right they're not coming in to be like I said earlier um you know puppets or tokens or great we have that checkbox right we're welcoming in the 20s and 30s to hear their perspectives and hopes and dreams and what is new and what is changing and um so that can create friction and so being really really strong in your Covenant with each other in your leadership in who is facilitating uh that takes a lot of time in patience because I was very protective and of a an aware that I did not want to set our our young adults up to say sh go join this and then have them come back feeling wounded from that because that's the opposite right and what I focused on was not the young adults it was the folks that had already been there saying you know are you willing to really make space for this are you willing to hear that maybe what you've done for 30 years is no longer what they're looking for or maybe not maybe they're excited about it um you know but are you willing to do things things potentially differently um and make space for that and that's a hard conversation for people a lot of people often Ben did you w to add to that so before we move on to Ben I just want to say oh sure Ginger you're bringing up something that is really important I think this idea of because we ask we we ask congregations if they're ready to to change a lot of things to become more diverse more multiculturally competent to to um to deal with white supremacy culture right within their congregations all of that we we do a we ask a lot of leaders within congregations to make all that happen right and and and one can say we're ready and yes we're we're ready we want to do this right and then actually doing the work there's tension there right yes yes and and so what I'm hearing right is that you really need to be ready to be able to say okay we are ready to listen we're ready to listen to what people young adults what they say they need what how they how they see the way we might do governance the way we might um uh do do this thing that we call congregational life right and and I see that tension a lot with some of our congregations in which they may be so excited they get these younger people in they bring all this energy right and then there's some sort of something happens right and then you have this young adult unas that might or younger people maybe not just young adult in the 20s and 30s they may be a little bit um older maybe in their 40s I don't know but but they they say okay we can't we can't handle you all aren't willing to change we're saying this is the way you need to do things and so we can't do this anymore we're gone and so I've seen that happen conflicts come up so how how might we really ready congregations and make sure that they are doing what they need to do to be ready for this they say they want it but are they willing to be ready for what they say they need so I just wanted to bring that bring that up and I don't know Ben if you might speak to that or Ginger you wna sort of circle back around so okay sure yeah I'll speak just briefly and then I think Ginger will have stuff to add to that as well um the thing I think that is important to get across to congregations whether they're small or huge I mean you could be a 100 person 100 member church or a 2000 member church I think this this the answer to this question that I'm about to POS is the same which is when is church and I think church is we want all of week church and by that I mean not that you're at church all of the week but that church is not just Sunday morning at 10:00 a.m. church is part of of your life ideally in some capacity throughout the week so whether that's you know uh religious program like religious education programming or a knitting group or a gardening like you know maintaining the Gardens at a campus or a young adult spiritual group recognizing that all of those are part of church and that we're a community of communities and that someone could go to church and participate in a variety of things not show up on Sundays and still be treated and seen as a full member of that congregation I mean of course ideally they would pledge and do all the other things but my point being is that Sunday mornings are not the whole of what unarian universalism can be and they also aren't necessarily the intrinsic part that everything is built around showing up on Sunday morning is great I love Sunday worship I love the choir I love the music I love all those things I love coffee hour but some folks are looking for a smaller group setting to discuss their spiritual fears expectations hopes dreams Etc and having that other times of the week is really important and I think you know if if a congregation was to say what can we do the first thing I would say is have programming on a week night and whether it's for young adults or for the congregation at large I think recognizing that a variety of people cannot make 10: a.m. on a Sunday because they might work at restaurant job or they might be young and they want to spend you know some night like time on Saturday night with their friends and then they might not want to get out of bed for a 10 a.m. service after they've been out you know having a good time so things like that I think are really important um and recognizing that um the you know traditional hundred people in a room in pews isn't necessarily the spiritual space that someone might want to come and be vulnerable in and so that space might be like in our case at neighborhood we have a beautiful living room in what used to be I guess The Minister's house um and is now the staff building and programs building and we have this beautiful little living room with couches and chairs and we sit in a circle and we have these meetings together and that is a very different space than our beautiful you know Sanctuary which is very different um so I think recognizing that it's not going to look or necessarily be at the same time as traditional programming and that if a church a church has to be willing to recognize that it's the whole week and it could be any part of the building doesn't have to be you know Sundays in the sanctuary for it to be part of church yeah thank you Ben for for highlighting that yeah and that kind of goes back to this idea of um uh adaptability flexibility open-mindedness in a very real way because the concept of what Ben's saying I've had conversations with members where that's very triggering for them you know what do you mean church is built around Sundays that's it and if you have a book club fine that's great but this is the sacred time right and so we do hear quite often from young adults that that that is Shifting right just that that is uh changing and so giving the same amount of um value resources support uh validation towards a Wednesday night program is not a it's not a cherry on top it is a ministry right it's not an extra it is an extension of it is an extension of our community of our Unitarian community of our of our um neighborhood community um and so a way in which I have I have been very fortunate at neighborhood um you know I've really collaborated with our ministers I invite uh Reverend Omega to come as she can and say a blessing at our young adult group um our young adults know that they don't have to come on Sundays but they have a minister and they don't even have to ever see her but she has made it very clear that you can email me and you can set up an appointment with me for whatever to talk about the church to talk about your life um and I am still your minister even if this is how it works in your life right now and this is where you're you're seeking your things uh you know from the the Wednesday night group or what have you um so you know a very initial step for us was was me really um advocating for that a and changing that culture and working with the minister which affects a lot right there's a lot of behind the scenes that's going on like my hours and The Minister's bandwidth and you know money and resources and things like that uh so prioritizing that you know um working working to prioritize that then has a ripple effect um and I want to go back to that comment you were asking about con conflict and how you you know what do you do with with some of that um I think that when there's Unity amongst your leadership and when there's a common ground and a common understanding not to similar to a covenant um you have something to go back to so what wasn't working was the board president feeling one way the Minister doing one thing and Ginger and Ben jumping up and down in the corner right we had to get to that place that doesn't mean there aren't minor disagree ances and it doesn't mean young adults always get what they want right but there was a Common Language and understanding and covenantal relationship um and vision really there was a common Vision between the our board our governance our lay leadership our staff um and that side of things and then the people coming into the program and so when those developed Harmony uh and I was able to know that my board president that our Minister that our director of religious education was supportive and really supportive not that's great you go do that but okay how do I need to work with you where do I need to Pivot right and how can we pivot together um that opened up the floodgates and allowed for so much more connection and authenticity and then that carries into your small groups you know um I'll share a story we have had so many people say where are the young adults where are the where are they where are they uh and then the first time we have were in Southern California very lucky to have a lot of outdoor space so the first time we put a patio T I mean a table out on our patio where we have coffee hour with a banner that said this is the young adult table and you can come and learn more resources um our young adult group was not greeted with yay that's great there were several members that walked by and said oh but where's the I wish I had a group or where is my group or that's interest that's a little exclusionary don't you think or oh gosh I mean you would be pretty surprised at the amount of uh hackles that got raised by that and it was at that moment that I knew I could call upon our Minister I could call upon Ben and others to interrupt that behavior that I was not alone that they weren't just going to go home and feel pushed aside that we could say oh that's not how we're in community with one another right let's let's stop right there right in that moment and hold space for that because um you know these individuals are a part of our community and that's not how we've agreed to be in Covenant and it's not a punitive thing it's an opportunity for conversation you know why is that so threatening right what is that bring up um and so intentionality is what I would say you know we don't let those things go it doesn't mean you call out the person on the patio but um I didn't let that go I brought that to our Minister we had conversations um those those micro moments were um brought to light and shined light upon and not just oh gosh I'm sure they didn't mean it that way and that's what had historically been done to tell the to tell the folks that were the young adults that were there oh you misinterpreted that or so and so is just a little grumpy or you know I'm devaluing how painful that that can be so I see your wheels turning too Ben yeah have something to say about that too yeah I mean I would say look it's it's important to meet people with Grace and and understanding where you know I'm just going to read the Covenant that we as a group have because I think it's it's relevant for this conversation which is when at the start of any of our spiritual groups we say we Covenant to respect one another listen to one another and welcome one another with love and compassion wherever we find ourselves on our spiritual Journeys I think that important so I do want to hold in Grace the the older folks who may who may feel like things are changing and that might be scary or different and I do want to just hold them in Grace at the same time I want to recognize that for churches there needs to be a recognition and you know these older older congregations if they're saying we want young people that's wanting an end it's not wanting a means and so what I think we need to change is instead of it's we want young people to fill our finance committee it should be we want to build a structure where young adults want to be and so that means we want the means which means we want week night programming we want small group discussion we want um to build out whole of week programming for young people and for you know the congregation at large and because if you build it they will come and I think the important thing is is that you can say you want young people all you the whole day but if you don't build the structures that will bring them that will not only attract them but also keep them involved in community and keep them engaged with the spiritual life of the church it's you're just you know wish listing I think that it's really important to recognize that if you want young people you need to do the things that young people need for them to feel like they want to join your community long term and I love what you said there because I want to highlight that why why do you want young people right I've asked that directly to some of our members when they've come to me and said oh I hear you have a young adult group can you recommend somebody for such and such and I will put it right back on them and say why that's that's just curious I'm curious to know what what's going on there right um because yes there that is a really good point then that I really want to to highlight that um yeah so thank you for bringing that up so I'm hearing that there's like this it takes a shift in thinking right so we've got this shift in thinking and shift in in in understanding maybe what the mission of the congregation is you know we talk about and you've mentioned this a few few times the sort of the resources right so we we talk about Mission you know we might I might speak with the congregation that's looking at budget and what do we do you know and and I say well is it Mission based right are you are you showing the Ministries like are you highlighting the Ministries versus typical budgets are like we need this for worship we need this for staff we need this amount for this and this right like um social justice social events what have you right so instead of in sort of rethinking reframing how we look at our budgets right because you know I I say to people okay so you want to get a lot of young young people I get that young people do not have the resources yeah they do not have the resources that some of our older congregants do many young people and I'm going to include myself in that even though I'm not in my 20s and 30s but I'm just going to say I have a lot of student loans right so I don't have what was experienced right many many um very M much older congregants may have experienced going through college without student loans right yeah and so there's been a shift in the economy and so as we look at this and we say oh well we want the resour well we want the young we understand we need young people or we're going to die out okay great and you're going to need to have it's a numbers game at that point because for every one big donor you may need 10 young people to fill that spot right 10 younger people let's put it that way right so I mean there are we could get into economics of the world and all of that this is not what this is about but that does play into this right and so we're looking at providing resources you know many of us know I I was one I was a youth adviser before I became a minister right what is what is the first thing to go when you got to cut cut staff cut you'll cut staff that are you know um dealing with sort of these jobs that have to do with young people right you'll um religious education we're we're seeing within Unitarian universalism a lot of religious Educators losing their jobs right now right that there is it's it feels like a little bit of a crisis right so how do we get people people to say hey no no no we need to look at the budget and we need to look at our mission and look at what we say we want and what we need to do and we need to provide the resources for it how do we get them to that place right thank you for bringing that up and just holding space for that reality that's another example of you know yes valuing young adults for who they are not how much big of a check they can write or how large of a pledge they can provide right yeah so I just want to lift that up yeah I mean I would say that um it's important to remember that although young adults don't have necessarily have as much free time or disposable income as our wonderful retirees do um you know I look forward to when I have time to go on a Wednesday morning at 10: am to another location not be worried about work that's great um and I think I don't want to do value that I think that you know one of the great things about um ideally is that across whole of life you can contribute in some way to the community now that doesn't necessarily mean pledging you know 10% of your income each year uh the traditional tythe uh so to speak as a 20-some with college debt I don't think that's appropriate frankly to even ask of that person but I do think asking a person to become a member and if they can't contribute you know financially they can still contribute with time they can become a a youth spiritual adviser you know in the in the yre program they can become an owl teacher for our whole lives we have several members who are in the owl training and will be teaching owl um or they can you know join you can join committees and and put in their thought thoughts and time um or you know we have someone who's very active with the pledge Drive um who's in our group and so my point being is is that you don't have it doesn't have to be money that a young adult is bringing to the congregation um and I think to the point of resources and we know thirst things to go what I would say to these congregations are actually the resources are there and and the actual resources to get what we did up and running although they're not like insubstantial financially they're not the same as starting a huge music program for example um you know with in our case it was a lay leader with staff facilitation um from Ginger and support but more almost you know moral support in the sense of empowering me to be like oh no you have this space this is your time you have this room you can run this every other week and we this this is your room for that time and you don't have to worry about you know can I book this room can I do this having those and those resources are free you know every church has space um and they have a room somewhere probably a cozy room especially if their older buildings they have those cozy rooms so those the resources are there and I think empowering a young person who is who is excited about this idea and then really support them and saying what can I do to help you it might not be you know the church can't initially hire a full-time you know coordinator for this position but they can give you the resources that are there and allocate the time that they the very little time it takes to make sure that that room is booked for that group that they always have that space that they have something that they have you know snacks I it doesn't cost a lot to buy some Cheez it'ss for a group but it can make a big difference if you come in and there's some snacks on the table um and I think that that and then it translates to young people feeling like they're welcome like they're integrated in the congregation and then they will become eventually they do become pledging members I mean we get older we our jobs ideally pay better and then eventually we're like oh I really want to get back financially to my congregation as well and so these congregations that are concerned about dying out well you do need to look at a 10-year out plan and if you get us in now in our 20s and 30s when we're in our 40s or 50s or 60s we'll be able to support this church but right now financially it's it's it's up to you uh you know 50 something 60 something 70s somethings and I think that one of the things I would love to see morean universalism is a recog that the Young Folks can contri a lot like of time and energy and vision and things like that and older folks put your money where your mouth is frankly it's like you know if you want your congregation to have the resources for a music program for a religious education program and to build a robust all of week programming it just pledge more as as you know I I think that recognizing that um volunteer ISM and pledging are the cornerstones of any functioning congregation um and recognizing that uh that that looks different for different age brackets is really important yeah it's I think it's also like when I really hear you saying I had this image that came to mind of kind of like an arc or like a rainbow right and we are not phasing out our older folks right we love we love we want there's actually such a yearning to be like them to be with them to be in community with them right I mean so that's another cultural shift that's like kind of separate spew off conversation but we can hold the entirety of the church together so it's so getting rid of some of this this PO polarized tension right of sort of well if we pour our money into a young adult coordinator or jits or supporting the young adult group we're pulling away from my thing and it's like well actually we are holding this church together and a young adult is able to bring energy and excitement and you know maybe time and things like that that maybe in other stages of your life you're just not able to but if you have those financial resources together we are lifting up this church right um and so I think that that it's kind of coming back as you were talking about summer just sort of the shared Vision the shared Mission if we're all taking bits and pieces of it rather than just pointing fingers at each other it's going to go a lot smoother and there is I love Ben use the word investment I tell people this all the time it is an investment and you do not get Returns on your investment right instantaneously right I mean and yes I will be very honest not every single young adult that you invest in is going to stay sure just like a financial investment not all of them are going to be successful right but that doesn't mean we don't do it and for those that do stay and for those that uh do engage you that is so fruitful you know and and so um viewing it that way viewing it as an investment viewing it as uh we are putting our resources here because we know that with the proper resources money attention support you know this will grow this will not just the young adult but carrying on you know our goal is so that this is your church home for all the phases of your life um and hopefully as you get older you're like wow this church has been through with me so much I graduated college here I got pregnant here my kids now go here I got married here that's gonna make a very different member who's willing to give of their heart who's willing to give of their money um than somebody who's kind of dipping in and out right um so that's what I would say is yeah it's it is an investment it is going to be a little bit uncomfortable momentarily um value what the young adults are able to do um because it is it is a lot um in different capacities in different ways um and trust that that investment will come back to you right yeah I mean I think Ginger you hit on something earlier uh about how a lot of like you know a lot of the young adults in our group have now started doing volunteerism with our spiritual exploration religious education program which means that that program now has more resources that it would not have otherwise had and you know I think if you spoke uh summer I think about how you know sometimes those get gotten rid of when there's a scarcity mentality of oh we can't pay for this we don't have and that goes away because you know all the you know for for whatever reason music is seen as you know obviously very important for Sundays but you know if they're a lot a lot of kids and it fades out and that program gets D resourced but if you have a robust young adults community and a robust um space for them to come volunteer that means you have volunteers for that program and you don't have to start hiring you know necessarily staff for all the different age groups you can have volunteers to help out your director of spiritual exploration or religious education so they don't feel you know stretched too far and Far too and far between um and I think that is something worth noting is that you you get a lot when you get young people excited about church because we have a lot of energy and we can provide different um support for church than I think you know older congregants can if you're a teenager uh speaking of someone who did volunteer at neighborhoods um youth religious education program with the high school youth if you're a high school youth it actually is really nice to have someone in their 20s or 30s because that you can relate to them more and you feel more like they're you know just like an older sibling or an older um older friend who can be supportive in a way that maybe you know someone who's 60 can't necessarily relate to those 17 year- olds those 16y olds who are going through life right now um and so that you young adults provide a different perspective and a different set of resources and skills um than necessarily other age brackets do and so I think it's really important recognize that we have unique talents as well as our own challenges and and life goals and things and then that creates space right so again it goes back to the Synergy relationship so so let us take something off of your shoulders so that as you are older adults into a different phase of life you know what what do you want to what do you need what do you want to really genuinely be focusing on right because I see this happen so often you know if you want to be in your late 70s and you love teaching Y and that is a passion of yours fantastic if that's filling you up and keeping you active that's great oftentimes that's not what I observe oftentimes I see people being like okay I really I want this I want my grandkids to have this but there's a burden feeling and you never want that right so by by us you know as Ben says you know being able to share our unique and different time Resources with the church it then frees up your older folks to be able to feel like okay we've got this right we we'll teach the youth so what is it that you need in your later phase of life so it's it in turn is going to strengthen your other Ministries because you're you're Distributing uh those responsibilities um in a way that I believe will often feel more uh balanced you know um so yeah yeah no it's very much so you're highlighting it's a shared ministry right not only are you sharing with other members in the congregation you're sharing with staff right and and you know in and having those difficult con conversations to ready people for for really being welcoming right that radical Hospitality so that when you put the table out with the chairs and you say this is the Young Adult Space people don't make the remarks that harmful right and so really you've got that you know with with your minister coming and and and visiting the group and saying hey I'm your minister too even if I don't see you on Sunday I'm here for you right all of that and you to as a dynamic duo were a shared ministry as well one that is a a staff person paid staff and one that is a member of the congregation and so thinking about all of that you know um I'm thinking about some of our sort of smaller congregations who may struggle the leaders are doing everything they're struggling you know they may even be struggling with getting you know we have we we run the gamut from those who are like there's a small few of us doing all the work to we've come coming out of the pandemic people don't want to volunteer as much or they'll just do little projects instead of long-term you know roles within the congregation um to wow people are just raring to go I've got so many volunteers it's amazing right so so I'm seeing all of this right as we're emerging you know we're in this emergence time right and so I'm wondering if you were to speak with consult with you know a congregation that is smaller you know what might you what messaging might you give them in terms of being able to do this they recognize that they or they may see that they have a couple of younger people they could be families that have come with kids right or you know um or or not um and they want to they go oh okay we got to create something we know we do and now we've got some through the door or what have you what sort of advice would you give them um I would say that yeah I don't think that the the young adult groups have to be limited to large or midsize congregations I think that they can there can be a presence for them at smaller congregations congregations with 50 100 members um any congregation I think in the United States frankly you're going to have young people walk through your door out of curiosity if only because they live a block down the street and they see a black lives matter flag and a rainbow flag and they think oh that's a church that I might want to show up to so every church has young people coming through the door the question is what is that experience like when they walk through the door and through coffee hour and and so on and building making sure that that experience is something that makes them keeps them curious and engaged and think oh I want to be here without necessarily tokenizing and immediately approaching and saying oh young person you want to join the committee without them even being a member or having been to more than two Services things like that so I think a cultural shift of don't aggressively welcome but create a space and create ideally someone in that age bracket to selectively welcome in the sense that we know something that and I found was effective was early on is that if we saw someone in that looked like they were in their 20s and 30s we one of us would say hi and just mention that we had this programming or just introduce ourselves and that itself can make a break whether someone comes to the next service or comes to the next session or shows up to the young adults group on a Wednesday not knowing what to expect you know maybe with some hope maybe with some trepidation a lot of the folks who come um you know don't know what to expect and then they get there like oh wow this is great and they get integrated into the church environment into the community and I think that that is the case for any size congregation and I you know I think that is there a number of sort of a number that you might want to hit sort of to just start snowballing I would say yeah I'd say but we started with four all it took was four young people to snowball into something that's over 50 now and I think that that can happen at any congregation and lots of our congregations are located in towns with colleges and with young people and you know I I you know Brit large our faith speaks more to the um the it aligns well with a lot of the values of young people around climate around social justice around um you know Equity things like that are really important to young people and so finding a church community that respects all that is really exciting and so I think we actually frankly as Unitarian Universalist we got to get excited about the fact that we actually have a lot to offer gen Z and millennials for their spiritual home and recognize that we are we can be that place but also recognizing that you know things might have to change there might have to be some shifts and as a church identify very quickly who who are the young people in your congregation who are already participating they may already be your usher they may already be volunteering on your Tech team they may already be putting in you know their time and the and like you know with uh supporting the the spiritual exploration program at your church they may already be there and identifying them and saying he what you're doing is awesome would you be interested in helping us build this space because you know the reality is is that if someone is in their you know if your minister is in their late 50s or early 60s them starting this group isn't necessarily going to work the same as someone in the community who's in who's a 30-some who is already excited to volunteer at the church so helping them and saying what do you need to start this I think is really important um and and that that's the case for any size um congregation Ginger do you want to speak to that for yeah I would I would ditto to everything you just said I would also say uh don't especi especially to our smaller congregations do not discredit where you are you know if it's two people meeting you know in in a church basement or at a coffee shop you know like there there's a perfectionism that comes into play particularly when we're starting new programs about how many and how much and how often and all of those things and I would say if you are a smaller congregation be realistic right you if if your entire membership is a hundred it is unrealistic to think you'll have a young adult group of 50 right I mean so so so be a little bit more um honest and proud and honor that having three or two I think is great right and still put the resources into that still value that still put it on your website still call it a young adult group um it's it's real it's there that that can be a Ministry three people and I very confident that that will grow right they will invite in their friends they will invite in their spouses um and and we should have maybe mentioned this earlier but we also don't uh require as Ben was saying coming to church first so that is not a requirement so if you start with two or or three people that are currently at your church and are proud of that and and support that and they bring in another um often it's you know a partner a spouse a best friend a roommate you know something like that um and they bring them to the group that is enough that is good that is value let's start with where we are at right it doesn't automatically have to be now you're remember now you're coming on Sundays because again Sunday is not the goal Ministry to that Community is the goal so um that's a that's that's a common tweak it can be a lot to ask a new person to go from um especially in smaller churches you know to go from zero to 100 like that so start with where you're at be proud of your one or two or three people that you have make that count um and as it slowly does grow which it will um don't feel a need to push it towards Sunday it's okay for it to be right where it is um and and expand your ministry like that is what I would say and also the the other thing I wanted to add was um each church is going to be a little bit different so you know Ben and I saw what we saw in terms of yeah I was seeing a lot of 25 25 to 30 so we're calling ourselves the 20s and the 30s um but you know if you're more 30s that's great if you're more young 20s that's great too so don't have an end goal until you see where you're at because different communities are are so different uh depending on where you are in the country and things like that so um ours grew organically based off who came through the door and if I had discredited that and said oh no they're too old or oh she's too young it would have fallen apart right so yes it is young adults we're not gonna have uh 50s year old We're not gonna have 16 year olds it but within that um you know if it's more on one side or the other uh roll with that go with that see see what comes in naturally so that's a great yeah great Point go ahead Ben yeah I mean sometimes this might be something is if you're a if you're a congregation you don't necessarily have a lot of young adults but you might have a lot of 30s something or 40 somethings with small kids like you could have a young fam's yeah you can have other you know building out um support in Affinity groups and peer groups is really important I know that you know another another example is that neighborhood has a really successful neighborhood people of color group that's been really supportive and helped a lot of folks in that group feel like it's a home for them and a community for them I so I think that like recognizing that this is a particular group of people who have shared experiences young adults or young families that they might need a space for where they can support each other and be in community together um and those things build on each other right so the more someone feels like this is my home and this is my community and this is where I have peers and friends and support the more that they integrate with the church in general and so um I think that that you know it's it's great to have these groups because then you feel welcome and you feel like oh I want to show up on Sunday because I'll see my friends there and just by virtue of the fact that you're at Coffee hour you will talk to someone outside of your age demographic you know we will talk to of course we don't just talk to the young people we talk to everybody and but by showing up and knowing oh if I could show up on Sunday my friend Sally will be there my friend Grace or whatever and I can just you know chitchat and up catch up with them that's part of what church is about and so whether that's young families or or or young adults or um anyone like it it's it's knowing that you have someone who you who you relate to at church is really important um because that's how you build community and like ginger said that could just be two people getting a coffee and encouraging that is also great yeah because that is where you start you start very small very small Y and then you build it and you say nope this is Wednesday every other Wednesday is spiritual group it'll be me and myself or maybe it'll be me and 50 people who knows but no but making sure that there's also a regularity to it so people know it's not just going to disappear so making sure that you as a church commit to that being structurally there for at least a few months and see how it goes I think is really important um because that's how these programs then sustain and become embedded culturally at the church so that they become like oh no we have a young adults group that's not just going to go away because then ising or young adult that's going to remain at the chch that's going to remain as a program it's not going to shift right that's another thing is that so once you even if it is those three people if that's where you seem to to be for a while if four people is where you plateau for a couple months then solidify that right then start to make your Covenant with those four people then commit to every other Wednesday night um because I think there's a nervousness that comes around when you're developing new programming um around almost being too flexible like too adaptive to what everybody wants right widening your age group too much or switching your times to try and accommodate everyone or uh you know those types of things uh actually are not helpful in the long run so so yes give it some time bear with it it will take time start small but then commit and then and then put your put your stake in the ground this is who we are this is what we do and stay with it and see it through um just like you would with any other program right so right yeah my home congregation had a young adult group that went to lunch after every Sunday you know after services on Sunday called The Lunch Bunch and wow you know that that grew and then sometimes others would come and join us so it was really lovely yeah let's say you're a restaurant you know what's the most important thing about a restaurant and if if they're serving a meal is not necessarily that it's the best meal that the customers ever had is that it's consistent and if another customer shows up they can have this expectation that that meal will be the same meal so they show up ordering the chicken picata it's going to be the same chicken picata so consistency is really important I think that's Ginger was hitting a little bit on that is that once you built this group make sure that your offerings are consistent so people know what to expect when they show up on a Wednesday so that when you're advertising it it's consistent so we have a consistent program that is a template that you know you slot in the reading you slot in the him but the actual structure is the same each time and making sure that that consistency is there will go a long way for people to keep showing up because they'll be like oh if I if I love this I'm gonna come back it's gonna be the same I'm gonna love it even more because I'll now have made friends there so I think recognizing that's why like I think having a lot of structure even if it's three or four people like having a covenant having a check-in those things go a long way to establishing and normalizing it um rather than just oh we're going to give you a room and like here some cheit and hang out do your thing yeah right and we really Center ours very deeply around Unitarian universalism and that's another thing do not be afraid to lean into that right like you know uh we yes we're not forcing people to join our church or become our religion because that's not who we are but we're also not shying away from the fact that it is a church group so when we're talking about things uh you know we might very typical YuYu we might say something in group like um you know whatever your higher power or not is or something like that right but we're not just talking about how is your day or what's getting you down in Life or um you know oh gosh a lot of younger people don't they don't like church so let's not make it churchy right we're saying well no we are Unitarian universalism this is what we believe and it is there's so many people that come to our group with religious trauma that are like I want to see it done differently I was raised in ex religion and that has a lot of trauma for me and it did not love me for who I was or who I am um but even with that Ben and I still said You are welcome here as you are and it's a church group we're talking about church things right you're gonna hear us you know some of this is might the G word will come up yeah we might say God we might do a meditation we might right I mean there there we're going to ring a bell we're going to light a chalice um those types of things um because ultimately that is what people are seeking for um and so I do see people scared to do that a little bit you know nervous of let's make it super cool and super fun you know so yeah how do we have we've got a good brand we should use it and and I love that yeah I mean you are you're talking about yeah we got something good to offer that is going to attract the young people and so I recognize we have just a few more minutes be before we have to close out and um you felt you you built this wonderful um young adult group and then you saw there is a need so would you like to talk a little bit with that last few minutes talk about the need that you are fulfilling outside of just your congregation sure um I'll touch on it and then Ginger if you want to Echo or follow up um so Ginger and I do have a website and a program that we're building out called u230 docomo 23.com I'm lucky I got that URL uh for us and um it's about building Young Adult Ministry for more 20s and 30s by 2030 so we want to see congregations not just neighborhood not just in Southern California but across our denomination across the country build out Young Adult Ministry in their congregation that's centered with their congregation that it joins embeds and is a welcome part of their fabric um and so if people are interested we do we are working with congregations to help build that so it's not just this us talking with you today but we can we we do offer um services and programs to help you at your Unitarian congregation in wherever build a young adults group at your church with a structure with a plan with programs um and so if folks are interested in that um and they want to learn more and reach out to us it's u230 and you can find our contact page and what we're offering and um exam also a sort of a story an outline of What ginger and I have been talking about today about what we've done that's worked and how we want to bring that to your congregation and tailor it to the needs of your congregation so if you're a small congregation we can still help you if you're a you know an enormous YuYu mega church of 2,000 people we can still help you it's the the the the the solutions here are scalable and they're universally applicable and tailoring those Solutions and tailoring your program to your church or something we'd love to help you with so we are available we're here yeah I think that's the hardest part sometimes is people just being like okay this is all great but what is my actionable step what is the step what do I literally do at my church right and that's what we really want to want to share with with people and we're happy to look at your individual Church your individual wherever you individually are and help you tailor it to where you are so you can uh can have success as well wonderful oh my goodness this has been such a blessing thank you thank you thank you for offering this time to us and there goes the I'm telling

you ghost I got a ghost in here or it's earthquake who knows what's Happ in California right anyway thank you thank you thank you thank you this has been such a blessing and um I'm so excited that you're doing you're offering this Consulting Ministry to help people um do what they need to do 20s and 30s by 2030 I love it I love it I love it u230 DOC all right excellent thank you thank you sum oh what a blessing you are to Unitarian universalism and thank you once again blessings on whatever you have going on and the rest of the day and thank you thank you thank you so much thanks for having us on you bless bye

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