fdo-webinar-greater-financial-security-feb-2015.mp4
GAIL FORSYTH-VAIL: OK, welcome, everyone. It is February 26, 2015. And this is our monthly Faith Development Office webinar. And this one is called "Seeking Greater Financial Security for Staff of UU Congregations." Our presenters are Richard Nugent, the director of the UUA Office of Church Staff Finances, and Betsy Gabriel, the UUA Compensation Program Manager. I'm Gail Forsyth-Vail, and I'm your host. I'm the Adult Programs Director at the UUA. And Susan Lawrence-- the managing editor of Tapestry and other resources-- is our technical support person, and she's going to disappear pretty soon. But she is here in the background in case there are technical issues.
A little bit of housekeeping before we begin. Please mute your microphone and turn off or stop your camera. If you have questions or comments, would you type them, please, in the group chat, which is in the lower left-hand corner. And you're free to ask questions during the presentation, but type them in. If we have time at the end, we may invite you to unmute. We'll have to see how time goes.
You can watch the chat box for links and information, which you can then cut and paste to your own computer. If you have audio problems, mute the audio on your computer and call in by telephone. And when we are done, the recorded webinar are will be posted at the web address on your screen.
So I am going to turn it over to the Reverend Richard Nugent, who will do the opening reading.
RICHARD NUGENT: Thanks, Gail. The opening words for this evening is from the 1994 meditation manual by Barbara Rohde entitled "The Unexpected Stairway."
"My spouse and I had been at a small hotel in Bergen for two days before we discovered the stairway. We had known it was there, of course. We had seen the sign, if not the thing itself. But we used the elevator. At the time, we thought, and the energy we needed for exploring that charming town on misty October days.
After breakfast on the third day, when the elevator seemed slow in arriving, my husband decided to walk up. He was waiting at the elevator door when I, and the elevator, arrived on the fourth floor. 'Let me show you something,' he said, and led me back down the stairs he had just come up.
I was dazzled. Instead of the sterile institutional look of most hotel stairways, this one had the warm beauty of an art lover's home. There were bright paintings on all the walls and at each landing, a rug in jeweled tones, a table with fresh flowers, an exquisite chair or two. When we reached the first floor, we walked up again, filled with energy, drinking in the beauty.
'We might have missed this,' I said. 'Have to be careful about saving time and losing life,' he said."
These words are presented because many of the topics that we are going to cover today tend at times to be glossed over because they can be complicated, in terms of the details, because we don't want to actually look at how much we have in the retirement plan, because it's sort of depressing. But the more information we have, the time of opening the stairway and walking up and finding all these treasures, the better we'll [AUDIO OUT] actually live life, rather than rushing through life or retirement, as the case may be. So thank you, Barbara Rohde, for your opening words.
Today we're going to talk about what constitutes fair compensation within the UUA, our future plans, the Office of Church Staff Finance's future plans around fair compensation, and then close by offering a few suggestions on steps that you, we, each of us can do if in fact, we believe that there are some issues that need to be resolved at our congregational employer. So that's our agenda for today.
Let me begin my own remarks-- my opening remarks-- by thanking, first off, Susan and Gail for inviting us, and also for Betsy Gabriel who so ably directs our compensation programs. And Betsy is a half-time employee of our staff group. I wish she were a full-time employee. But she is insistent upon spending some time of her retirement actually retired. She's an HR professional who retired two years ago but has been a very active Unitarian Universalist.
Both Betsy and I were at the fall conference in Atlanta. And at the conference, I opened my remarks there talking about "Lilo and Stitch." My now 15-year-old loved "Lilo and Stitch." And the concept that that show introduces of ohana, meaning family and the fact that no one is ever left behind or forgotten, is a driving force for my staff, in terms of the benefit plans of the UUA. We don't want anyone left behind or forgotten.
The Office of Church Staff Finances, we have seven employees, in total. We manage five program areas-- the UUA health plan, the retirement plan, our group insurance, which is life, disability, and dental, the compensation program, much of which we're going to cover fairly thoroughly this evening, and then last but certainly not least are the aid funds that my office has to administer. And the aid funds are for all religious professionals and administrative staff of our congregation, just not ordained clergy. And we'll say a few more words later in the course of a presentation.
Around many of these issues we receive ongoing advice from the Council on Church Staff Finances. This is an entity that has about 40 some odd years of existence and includes representatives of all the professional groups, including some professional groups that I never even knew existed until I took this job. And we come together a couple times a year. For us, it's a vehicle for us to present new directions that we're thinking about, in terms of the Office of Church Staff Finances. But as importantly, or more importantly, it's an opportunity for the professional groups to present their concerns, their ideas to us. And LREDA has been ably served the last few years by the Reverend Jude Geiger. And we're glad to have him around our table when we gather.
So I'll be back in a few moments to discuss some of the insurance plans. And let me turn the microphone over to Betsy.
BETSY GABRIEL: Thank you, Richard, and good evening everyone. We're going to be talking for the next several minutes about the fair compensation guidelines. And the first and most important thing I want to say to you is that the fair compensation guidelines are a series of recommendations. They were developed for congregations, for congregation staff. And they're comprised of salary ranges and benefits. They apply to most church staff, occasionally church's staff positions that do not fall into our guidelines, and it takes us a little while to catch up. But many of you who are on with us tonight and most church staff are covered by the guidelines.
First, I want to give you a little bit of history about them. Back in 1990, the UUA realized that we have some compensation concerns about staff in our congregation. And they developed the compensation committee to study the problem. The problem resulted in a report which was published in 1993 titled "The Price We Pay."
And what the committee determined was that-- and they were looking at ministers at this point-- most of our ministers were paid very poorly and were provided benefits very poorly in comparison to ministers in other denominations-- to religious leaders in other denominations. So they suggested that we do a further report to come up with some solutions to the problem.
This report was released in 1995, and it was a title "To Sustain the Living Tradition." It contains 20 guidelines which churches could follow to establish a fair compensation. That report was approved by the board and was sent to the delegates at the General Assembly in 1995. And the General Assembly accepted the recommendation.
Based on the recommendations a committee put together the first basic salary guidelines. And they were published in 1997. And because this study was done for ministers, the first guidelines actually just presented salaries for ministers. But it only took a year for the group to realize that all church staff needed to be covered. And they did quickly become a part of the guidelines.
The information in the guidelines is reviewed annually. It's updated as necessary. But we need do look at all the information that results in the pay ranges on an annual basis.
The fair compensation guidelines contains all of the elements of pay and compensation and all of the recommendations that you see listed here on this slide. We're actually going to talk about each one of them in detail. So I'm not going to repeat them to you at this point. But what I would like to say is that one of the most important aspects of this program, or the theological basis, or the theological values that underlie all of the guidelines that were developed.
When we look at some of our principles, we look at respecting work and dignity. And we consider fair and equitable treatment. And these were certainly very strong focuses that were kept in mind as they put all of these reports and programs together.
One of the very strong opinions that-- we who work with [INAUDIBLE], and I know those who put the program together was that-- our fair compensation program is a way for our congregation to live their values and to live their values at home, which is a very good place to start. When competition consultants go out to work with congregations, they all say things like, you all probably picket Wal-Mart, because Wal-Mart hires employees with so few hours that they're not eligible for benefits. You probably marched for a minimum wage. If you live in Philadelphia, you've been marching for sick pay for workers. And yet, many congregations are not providing these same things that they feel are important for people outside of our congregations for their own congregations. So adopting and adhering to fair compensation is a way for all of our congregations to live their values.
Another important value that I think leaders within our congregations need to be aware of and respond to is that there's a responsibility of stewardship of the resources of the congregation. When employees are compensated fairly and feel like they are being provided a reasonable standard of living, they work harder. They are more loyal. They are happier. And they do help the congregation grow in a number of ways.
When they're not taken care of and treated fairly, they may not necessarily be good employees. They may not last very long, and it's very expensive and stressful for congregations to be replacing employees all the time. So in order to be a good Steward of the congregation's resources, they should be protecting the congregations by taking good care of the employees.
One of the recommendations in the "To Sustain a Living Tradition" and the fair compensation guidelines is that when congregations are making a decision about compensation, the first thing they should establish is a basic benefits package. And this should be established prior to determining a salary figure for the employee. So the basic benefit package will consist of health insurance-- and we're going to talk about each of these in more details. So I'll just briefly mention-- health insurance, life insurance, long-term disability insurance, dental insurance, a retirement plan, and for ordained staff, FICA, or SECA taxes. We'll talk about that in detail. We also recommend that employees receive professional expense reimbursement, that salary and housing should be within the recommended salary ranges, and that the congregation establish and maintain personnel policy, so that they can assure that employees are treated fairly and equitably.
When we talk about the fair compensation guidelines, we will present to you what the fair compensation expectation is. Congregations who meet fair compensation expectations can be considered fair compensation congregations. We will also share with you our recommendations, and these are usually recommendations as to how the fair compensation expectations will be met. And then there are other details for many of these benefits or other compensation elements that you need to know. And we'll be discussing those as well.
RICHARD NUGENT: So the first of the specific areas that we are going to explore in slightly more detail is health insurance. So the expectation, presently of the fair compensation is that employer's congregations provide employees and their dependents access to health insurance. Now, since the time these guidelines were developed, of course the terrain about health insurance has changed radically with the Affordable Care Act. Our recommendation is that congregations contribute 80% of the cost of that health insurance for the employee's coverage, and 50% of the incremental cost of bringing a family onto the health insurance from the individual. And those are for full time employees.
We also further recommend that premiums can be pro-rated as a percent of full-time employment. Now the year UUA health plan, we are now in the ninth year of our plan. And I'm happy to say that our plan is remaining a very robust, comprehensive plan. At some point, about 300 congregations have participated in our plan. And we offer about four different levels of plan details at the moment, according to the bronze, silver, gold under the Affordable Care Act.
Now, what's important about the health insurance with regards to the fair compensation, again, is that it only constitutes the offer of health insurance be provided. And we several years ago introduced the concept of a leadership level for fair compensation, which is a heightened level of participation. And that's where the recommendation of 80% for the individual and 50% for family coverage was introduced. The leadership level actually at the moment has been on hold, pending our redesign of what constitutes fair compensation, which Betsy will address later on in our presentation.
So for the moment, in terms of health insurance, it's providing access to health insurance. For health insurance, unlike retirement, one employee can be given a higher percentage premium contribution than other employees. So it doesn't have to be the same percentage given to all employees. And in part, that's a reflection of many of the employees of congregations secure health insurance through different means-- many through their spouse's plans, some through individual policies, and now, of course, the Affordable Care Act is yet another mechanism, in addition to the employer offering health insurance, whether it's the UUA plan or another plan. And depending upon how the individual employee gets the health insurance, the rules governing what's reimbursable and what's tax free has changed radically with the Affordable Care Act. And if you have any questions around health insurance, we're certainly happy to answer, if not tonight, by e-mail, because of the complexity of individual circumstances.
Long-term disability insurance is the great overlooked benefit, I believe, of fair compensation. So long-term disability insurance provides ongoing financial support to individuals who have been determined to be disabled and/or have a disability after 90 days, according to the particular policy that we offer, which is currently through the Guardian Life Insurance. Our expectation is that congregations provide long-term disability insurance to all eligible employees.
For our particular plan, the eligibility is for employees who work 750 or more hours a year. We strongly recommend that congregations pay the premium on behalf of the employees. But they also impute the income to the employee. What does that mean? So the premium is paid by the congregation. The value of the premium-- and the premium for our plan, for instance, is 1% of salary. So if you're earning, let's say, $50,000, that's $500 a year-- would be to take that $500 and add it to the salary amount on your W-2, so that you're paying taxes on the value of the premium. Why is that important?
It's important because if you were to need this benefit and receive this benefit, if the taxes had been paid on the value of the premium, then the benefit-- all the money you're getting-- will be tax-free. If the benefit had been purely provided without paying taxes on the value of the premium, then it's taxable income, which is a sizable difference, in terms of the individual.
Our particular benefit-- the UUA plan-- is 66.6666%-- 2/3-- of salary. And it would continue as long as the individual is found disabled. And every year we get about 10 people who are found eligible for this benefit-- strokes, cancer diagnoses, accidents. You name the human condition, and somebody has been diagnosed or experienced this illness or disability.
But at the same time, many people in our congregation staff do not have disability insurance. Either they opted against signing up when that was offered when they first began employment, or perhaps the congregation never offered it to the non-ministerial staff. If that's the case, if a congregation has never offered it to the employees, we are often able to work with the insurance company in being able to get the staff covered. So you could work with Patti Angelina on our staff [INAUDIBLE] on disability insurance.
This is a major protection both for the employee-- for you, if something were to happen to you-- but also for the congregation, because it's just terrible when a much-beloved staff member, something terrible happens, and this person doesn't have a source of income. And the congregation feels like they want to do something, but clearly they can't do what they need to do, which is pay 2/3 of the salary indefinitely. So it's a major protection both for the employee and for the congregation.
BETSY GABRIEL: And life insurance is very similar, in some respects, to disability insurance. It's great protection for your employees. It's great protection for the congregation. And it's relatively inexpensive, particularly compared to getting individual life insurance.
Our fair comp expectation is that congregations will provide life insurance that's equal to 200% of-- or two times-- the employee's annual salary, which includes housing for clergy, up to a $200,000 maximum. And this covers and includes accidental death and dismemberment benefit, which means that if you are accidentally killed or you are dismembered as a result of an accident, you receive more than your $200,000 maximum.
So the expectation is that the congregation provide it. The recommendation is that congregations paid the premium for employees for this insurance. The life insurance is also available for dependents, although in a much smaller quantity. And it is not the expectation that congregations will pay the premium for the dependent insurance.
[AUDIO OUT]
It sounds like we're not able to hear Richard, so I will go ahead and present this slide. Fair compensation expects that congregations will provide dental insurance for employees and their dependants. The recommendation is that the premium for this can be covered by the employees. It does not necessarily need to be paid by the congregation.
Dental insurance is an extremely important benefit, because it helps protect your income. And one of the things that many people who don't have dental insurance don't realize is that when you have dental insurance and go to the dentist, what you pay is actually discounted significantly, not just because the insurance company pays some portion of i, but because the dentist charges the patients and insurance companies much less than they charge an uninsured patient. So it's definitely a benefit that you would like to have. But you may not realize that until you have some dental issues.
It's the expectation of fair compensation--
[AUDIO OUT]
SUSAN LAWRENCE: Can anyone hear me? You can hear me. I can't hear anybody else. I'm going to mute our participants and see if others can speak.
[AUDIO OUT]
RICHARD NUGENT: Betsy, have you been waiting for me?
SUSAN LAWRENCE: Oh, there's Richard. Richard, we can hear you.
RICHARD NUGENT: I can't hear what Betsy just said. Did Betsy just present on the retirement plans?
SUSAN LAWRENCE: No.
RICHARD NUGENT: In that case, let me. Hold on. Let me just see. The best laid plans of technical. It was working fine all day.
Once again, for the UUA retirement plan the expectation is that congregation's employers will provide a retirement benefit for all employees who are eligible for the plan. The vast majority-- 90 whatever percent-- of our congregations are in the UUA retirement plan. There are a few who may be elsewhere with a different company, but only a handful of congregations have opted for that. And the fair compensation expectation is that an employer contribution of at least 10% is offered employees.
Now, it gets a little complicated, but basically the hope is that congregations will actually make a 10% employer contribution on behalf of their employees. However, under the revision of our retirement plan last year, we established a minimum for the first time in our retirement plan of a 5% employer contribution. There had not been a minimum contribution and some congregations are actually paying only 2% or 3% into the plan. So we required 5%. And so we also are allowing for a match to encourage participants to put some of their own money in. So if a congregation says, we will put 10% in no matter what for all employees, or if they say we're going to put 5% in, but we'll match up to 5% so that the offer of 10% is on the table, then that congregation would meet the fair compensation standards.
To be in our plan, the basic rules are if you have been in the plan before, if you shift congregations, you are in the plan from day one. If you have never worked for a UU congregation, but you go work for one, you have to satisfy a 12-month waiting period, during which time you have to have worked 1,000 hours. After that requirement-- 1,000 hours within 12 months-- after that is met, then you must be in the plan, must receive employer contributions, and if your hours are reduced below 1,000 once you're in the plan, you get contributions based on whatever your salary is. So it doesn't have to be 1,000 hours. So if somebody started out full-time ends up working only quarter time after a few years, they would still receive retirement plan contributions.
All of these benefits, but the retirement plan in particular, some of the details are complicated. That's why we have a great staff like Betsy, Linda Rose who administers our retirement plan, Patti Angelina, who I mentioned on the disability, where Jim Sargent and Patti on the health plan are certainly available to answer questions, specific questions, with regards to particular benefit plans.
Betsy are you back in?
BETSY GABRIEL: I'm on the telephone.
RICHARD NUGENT: So we're up to FICA.
[AUDIO OUT]
Am I the only person not hearing Betsy? We all apologize for these technical glitches.
So let me go ahead with the payment in lieu of FICA. So for the anomalies of the federal tax code, ministers are treated as both employees and as self-employed. Self-employed for purposes of Social Security, for everything else ministers are considered employed. As a result, it is illegal for a congregational employer to pay Social Security for a minister.
So all regular employees, the employer pays 7.65% for both Social Security and for Medicare taxes. And the employee contributes 7.65%. Employer pays half. The employee pays half. For ministers, they have to pay the full 15.3%. And so our recommendation for fair compensation is for the congregation to provide a stipend to the minister of the employer's share, which would be 7.65% to offset what would be the employer's share.
That amount is taxable income, so you have to pay taxes on the 7.65% percent. But it's a payment in lieu of FICA. So that's what the expectation is.
BETSY GABRIEL: So I'm back on, and on the telephone. So I hope you all can hear me. I'm hearing myself echoing.
Fair compensation is not just about your financial compensation. It's also about your life needs. And it includes elements which will allow you to achieve life balance. Fair compensation guidelines recommend that congregations provide time for continuing education. This is for employees to pursue study or educational offerings. For ordained staff, it's usually offered at one month per year. And this is in addition to vacation and sabbatical time.
Fair compensation also recommend that employees be paid vacation and sick days. And we actually think that even part-time employees should receive this, although they receive it on a pro-rated basis. And fair compensation recommends that all religious professionals be provided with sabbatical. This would be one month for every year of service for full-time religious professionals.
Fair compensation also expects that employees will receive a professional expense allowance, which is reimbursement for professional expenses. And we recommend that this expense allowance is paid through an accountable reimbursement plan, which means that these professional expenses can be paid for the employee without any tax liability on the employee's part. We recommend that churches provide 10 of salary, including housing, or $5,000, whichever is greater, for religious professionals. And that is pro-rated for part time, or it can be pro-rated for part term.
And we also recommend they provide adequate training funds for all other employees. These training or professional extensions can be used for travel expenses when you're attending a professional meetings, conferences, they can pay association expenses, including your LREDA dues and your registration expenses for General Assembly. Other travel expenses beyond mileage would include meals if you needed to purchase them when you were out on church business. It's not provided by your organization. They can include malpractice insurance, provide for cell phones, and also work-related purchases, including computers, and equipment, and books.
Now, let's talk about the salary ranges, which are a little bit more complicated than some of the basic benefits. The guideline for fair compensation is that congregation will pay all employees within the recommended salary ranges. And the recommended salary ranges were determined based on position descriptions, job descriptions, and definitions of the work that the employee does. They are also determined based on the geographic location of the congregation and the size of the congregation.
Our assumption is that different geographic areas pay wages at different levels. Employees who work in Honolulu, Hawaii, or Los Angeles, California, earn more money than employees who work in Bozeman, Montana. And so our salary recommendations recognize that. We also recognize that employees of larger organizations are often paid more than those in smaller organizations. So our salary recommendations recognize that. This is just another slide that provides that same understanding that your pay recommendations are based on your job description, your geographic location, and the congregational sized.
And we don't have a slide showing the capsule job descriptions. But they are available on the UUA website. And I think Susan has already, or will soon, put up the link to fair compensation.
If you look on the right-hand side, you can see that our congregations are divided into six sizes. And this division is based on number of members. This is the membership number that your congregation provides in their congregational record. No, it's not a congregational record, sorry. It's in the certification that they send to the UUA in February of each year.
And we also have seven geographic areas. We call them geographic indices. These are a representations of wages paid in different areas. So our geographic index number three, which we call average, actually represents the average wages paid for a variety of different jobs in the United States. And geo indices that are below three, such as one and two, represent wages that are lower than the national average. And the four, five, six, and seven geo index represent areas where wages are paid above the national average.
This table shows you a little bit more about the geographic indices. Again, if you look at geo index number three, you see that that's average. Geo index two, we find that wages are approximately 6% below the national average. And geo index one will have waited that are 12% below the national average. And likewise, going above three, each increase in geo index increases the wages by 6%.
When you're looking at the fair compensation salary ranges to determine where you should be paid, be sure to look for the correct geo index, because each of the pages represents a different index. Be sure that you've looked at the capsule job descriptions, so you understand where your responsibilities are matched. And make certain that you know your church size.
This very tiny little hard-to-read slide is a salary recommendation. This is for congregations in geo index three. And if you will look down the left-hand side of the slide, you can see the various position titles listed. And across the very top of the slide, you'll see the congregational sizes.
So let's assume that you work for a mid-sized two congregation. You're going to be in one of the middle columns. And we are already assuming that you are in a geo index three. If your congregation's a geo index 5, you will have an entirely different salary recommendation sheet. This is available on the UUA website as well. And if you have trouble finding it, get in touch with us at the Office of Church Staff Finances, and we can help you get there.
I'm really excited that we are just embarking on a complete review of the entire fair compensation program. We began this program back in the mid 1990s, s so it's approximately 20 years old. And there's no question that we've made a number of updates. Certainly the pay ranges have changed since 1990. And other aspects of the program have been modified as well, but we've never done a complete review of all of the assumptions on which the program is based.
We know we have jobs out in congregations that are not in our pay hierarchies. And we know we have many, many questions from congregations that we need to readdress in reviewing its programs. So this is what the comprehensive review is designed for.
Among some of the elements of things we have to get accomplished include updating and broadening job descriptions for employees. We'll be working with an independent compensation consultant to help us ask and answer all the questions that we have about the program. We expect that we will be recognizing current compensation theory and technology and the current economic climate. And certainly all throughout this review, we will be reflecting back and making certain that it's always responding to our UU values.
We hope to have significant volunteer involvement. For one thing, we will need help with job descriptions. I personally don't know everything that you do, and so many of the professional groups will be helping us put together a number of job descriptions that cover several of the jobs that are in our hierarchy and that are not currently in our hierarchy.
We are also planning to conduct focus groups with all of our professional organizations. And I think most of you all are LREDA members and know that we did that in November at the Fall Con. We still have the other professional groups to work with. And then finally we will put together some form of a task force of individuals who will determine what fair compensation should look like going forward, perhaps for the next 10 years, in our UU congregation.
RICHARD NUGENT: One of one of the next steps is in early June-- before General Assembly. Not that we don't have plenty to do in preparing for General Assembly-- we're having a two-day summit here in St. Louis. "We" meaning the UUA Church Staff Finance staff group. Sarah Lammert, the director of ministries and faith development, is coordinating the gathering. And we're going to bring together about 50 people, roughly 50 people, to talk about the challenges around the economies, the sustainability of ministries, the economics of ministries, not ministry but ministries, in all the various dimensions that exist within a congregation, given the fact that graduate school, whether seminary or other graduate education, costs are skyrocketing on top of what might be punishing undergraduate debt depending upon the age of the individual.
The fact that congregations for the most part, their budgets are not growing substantially-- even if their membership may be holding steady or increasing, the budgets generally are not increasing with the costs of insurance increasing, pressure around salaries, and pressure around fair compensation. Pay everybody the same benefits, not just the ministers. There are serious concerns about how ministry and congregational ministry is going to play out and whether it's sustainable going into the next decade, or whether some substantial changes are going to have to be made.
So we're inviting representatives of all the professional groups. LREDA will be represented there. All the professional groups-- the seminaries, the Ministerial Fellowship Committee, the credentialing committee, a little bit of everybody that has a stake in this conversation-- will spend two days in early June in St. Louis. Not expecting major solutions, but at least begin the conversation in a cross-deliberative conversation, and to try to come up with what might we do differently? What experiments could we initiate to see if we can get a better handle on reducing the cost of this whole credentialing process and ongoing process? So be on the lookout for reports on that meeting come GA and after GA.
BETSY GABRIEL: And finally, the question that we get asked quite frequently is what can I do? I don't think that my congregation has fair compensation. I don't think that I am, or I don't think that some of the other employees are. What can I do about it?
I think the first I would suggest is that you research the program. You've learned a little bit about it tonight. There's much more information online. So get online and read or print out and learn as much as you can about all the elements of the program. When you have questions, reach out to us, and we'll be glad to try to help you understand.
Then go to your supervisor. For many of you, this may be your minister, but for some of you that may not be. But go your supervisor with your information in hand and say, look, this is a great program. What can we do to get it implemented here? And ask about what you need to do and what can be done to effect these changes.
Be sure to go through proper channels. I think most of you know that. If you don't have a supervisor to talk to hopefully you have a dispute policy, or complaint-- a dispute resolution policy, or complaint policy, or a personnel committee that you can go to and talk to about fair compensation. If you're having trouble framing some of your questions or communicating, seek help from your good offices person.
RICHARD NUGENT: I think it's also important to point out, as a minister who speaks to ministers fairly often around these topics, that most ministers did not go into ministry because they have a particularly good handle on HR and financial issues. As a good friend of mine once said, I didn't go to seminary to be an administering, but a minister. And so there is the need for conversation, education, around these issues among all the professional groups, not the least of which are ministers.
So more often than not, folks just haven't paid close enough attention to what the compensation ramifications are. So they welcome an opportunity. And of course, we're available to consult. The compensation consultants that exist throughout the United States-- we have over 20 compensation consultants available to go in and do a free-- actually something from the UUA still is free-- a free consultation at no expense. And it's just not about ministerial compensation around the search process, but they're prepared to talk about compensation within the larger staff.
So do some research. Ask for help. Get some ideas. Get talking points. And understand that it may not be an immediate overnight solution. But it's something that phased in over the course of several years, depending upon how the budget can be managed.
[AUDIO OUT]
And it looks like we may have just lost Gail. Oh, there's Gail. She's back. So questions-- do we have any questions? We'll try to unmute people at this point, since there aren't that many folks.
BETSY GABRIEL: You can raise your hand and by going up to the top of your screen and clicking on my mood. There's a pull-down menu which will allow you to raise your hand. If that does works for you, just type a question into the message chat on the left-hand side. And we'll be happy to answer it.
I don't see any questions at this point.
I do say some questions, or a comment. Let me read it, and we'll decide which it is. "I always find that it is a difficult line to walk trying to balance this, because of the budget not being very good from year to year. It isn't realistic to ask for fair compensation when the budget is often so stretched."
My reaction to that is that it is reasonable to ask for fair compensation. It's the responsibility of your congregation to achieve the balance between the budget and the money coming in and the money going out. But I don't think it's unreasonable for an employee to expect to be compensated fairly. So I don't quite agree with this.
RICHARD NUGENT: I mean, I served seven congregations as an interim minister, and I arrived with varying degrees of compliance with fair compensation at each of those congregations, including one congregation that basically provided no benefits to anyone on staff other than the minister. And through advocacy and some effective of fundraising-- most congregants don't have a clue that folks aren't being fairly compensated. So I would argue that it's important to raise the issue and the expectations and ask that the congregation be fully brought into the conversation, because I think most UUs will find a way to take the incremental steps to bring people closer in line to fair compensation if they know the fact that they aren't being really compensated.
But they've got to know that. And often we don't talk. Including ministers don't talk about it, because they feel like it's self-serving to be talking about salaries and benefits. But I acknowledge it's difficult. And I also understand that it's complicated.
Let's see.
BETSY GABRIEL: Theresa, this is a very good question. And I think one of the things we forgot to say was we would be happy to talk individually with people who have specific individual questions and that tonight was to talk more about the program itself. So you have our emails. In fact, they're on the screen looking at you. Please feel free to reach out to us, and we can give you some suggestions.
RICHARD NUGENT: And again, one of the big challenges is the fact that a lot of this is complicated, especially when you start talking about the retirement plan and the health plan. And we're generally working with volunteers. In my experience, good treasurers serve one or two terms and then want nothing to do with being a treasurer ever again. The treasurers that are less than stellar are the ones who stay forever. And you can't blast them out of their position.
But for the most part, the lay leadership wants to do the right thing. But it can be complicated to understand what the right thing is, let alone, the issues of how do you balance program costs versus building repairs versus mission out in the community? One of the big frustrations that I see is the tendency of some congregations to say, oh my gosh, we've got 20,000 extra dollars. Instead of spreading that around to the existing staff, let's hire another quarter-time staff person, because we're all so overworked as it is. So then I hire another quarter-time staff person who's also are unfairly compensated. And I find that to be challenging.
And I see that Gail is thanking us in a written note, because she also has had problems with the audio portion of this evening's program. Thank you for your kind words, Gail. And we appreciate-- I mean, I live and work in Washington, but I'm in Boston frequently-- like every other week or so for a few days-- and it's really great to have such strong religious educators to be part of our staff team, working with Gail and with Susan and with other members of the religious education community. It's great to be just a few cubicles away.
SUSAN LAWRENCE: Thank you, Richard. Am I audible? Oh, how wonderful. Well, since Gail's mute, I'm going to jump in and tell you about the webinars that are coming up in the next few months. And they are posted here. We're doing Easter in a multi-congregation, which Gail will be presenting in March.
And we have some help from the Fahs collaborative to walk us through the materials they put together for Fahs Sunday plans congregations might be wanting to be making. And I just looked at the resources today, and they've got a whole bunch of PDFs and sessions and readings and worship and stuff up there. So that should be cool. They're going to walk us through that.
And then in May, we are going to hear from the youth and young adult ministries office. And there's a new set of competencies that's being developed to be guidelines for people who are advisers in youth programs. So someone will be telling us all about that in May. And the registration and all the details are at this link here, which I'll paste when I'm done talking. In fact, maybe, Gail could you type it into the chat, in case people need the link.
And I think that's all I've got to say, besides thank you to Betsy and Richard. And it's really nice of you to redeliver this, because this presentation was done at LREDA and was extremely, extremely well-received. And we're glad you could repackage yourself for us here. Hopefully, people will see this in archives, as well.
So anything else we need to say? No? Yes? Thanks everyone for attending. And as always, I want to thanks for putting up with our getting to know our technological capabilities.
RICHARD NUGENT: Or lack thereof. But we tried.
BETSY GABRIEL: Likewise, I hope you all enjoyed it and be in touch if you have further questions.
SUSAN LAWRENCE: Thanks very much and good night, everybody.
BETSY GABRIEL: Good night.
RICHARD NUGENT: So this was challenging.
SUSAN LAWRENCE: Oh my god, what happened to Gail's voice.
BETSY GABRIEL: Well, I want you to know what I learned. You are talking through your telephone, and you're hearing yourself while you talk through your telephone, which I was for like five or six slides. I [INAUDIBLE] more, and I looked on that audio settings, and I was able to select use telephone rather than microphone.
SUSAN LAWRENCE: Oh.
BETSY GABRIEL: So when I was finally finished with the bulk of the presentation, I no longer heard myself.
SUSAN LAWRENCE: So you probably missed the part where I wrote to everyone that you should kill your computer mic. I put it between two web links. You probably didn't even see it.
BETSY GABRIEL: What did you do?
SUSAN LAWRENCE: I had written a note to you to say if you kill your computer mic, you won't hear yourself. But I sandwiched it between two links so that everyone else saw it, but you probably didn't/
BETSY GABRIEL: Well, I tried to do that. I tried to turn off my microphone the way I normally do when I'm listening to something on YouTube. But it didn't work. And it didn't dawn on me. I knew there was some other way to do it. I just didn't know what.
Finally, when Richard with talking, I was able to do something other than talk, and I found More, and that's where it was.
SUSAN LAWRENCE: Nice.
GAIL FORSYTH-VAIL: Hi, can you hear me now?
SUSAN LAWRENCE: Yeah, what happened?
GAIL FORSYTH-VAIL: Apparently when I muted myself because I didn't want to be causing any feedback, it reverts back to the computer's mic rather than the headset mic. I just figured that out because I went into those audio settings. So I muted myself so that I didn't create noise while Richard and Betsy were presenting. And when I tried to unmute, it apparently flips back to the setting, which would be using the computer mic, rather than the headphone mic. So I have to manually go in and switch back to the headphones.
SUSAN LAWRENCE: Where was that? Is that in your control in your laptop?
GAIL FORSYTH-VAIL: It's under more.
SUSAN LAWRENCE: Oh, it's in AnyMeeting.
GAIL FORSYTH-VAIL: Audio settings, and then it says Click Here to Switch Your Mic. And apparently, because I had set it up with the headphones, but apparently when you mute yourself it reverts back to the default setting, which is using the computer's microphone and not the headset.
SUSAN LAWRENCE: Oh, mine says it's on default right now. Can you still hear me?
GAIL FORSYTH-VAIL: Yeah, well, mine did that because when I changed it to the headset, now you can hear me again.
SUSAN LAWRENCE: I'm not even sure I understand what you said, but I'm glad you figured it out.
GAIL FORSYTH-VAIL: I don't like AnyMeeting. I've decided I hate it.
SUSAN LAWRENCE: I miss the old Fuze. I really liked that. Oh, we're still recording! Oh my god!
GAIL FORSYTH VAIL: That's all right. You can cut this part off the end.
SUSAN LAWRENCE: It's not that easy to do, but I will manage. Or someone will. Let me stop.